In Search of Purpose-Driven Conversation

Starting the conversation:

The veil of separation of work life and non-work life has been removed. You now faced how all parts of life impact your ability to show up in everyday and uniquely challenging situations. Breaking down barriers never happens in ideal moments; however, you can still make the most of each interaction when you have hope and intention — regardless of what else is happening around you. There are new skills required to build lasting relationships today.

You will hear about prompts to evaluate what holds you back, prompts to assess overwhelm, and the fact that people require effort and time to build trust. A commitment to being actively engaged; to keeping your hope during uncertain times; and to meeting people where they are — all these can help you embrace and use what is present to work together on the current set of priorities. Jess Dewell talks with Houda Elyazgi, Chief Client Officer at Saxum, about how we all will stumble as we build empathy.

Small, meaningful conversations use existing hope for a greater positive impact on your future. Houda Elyazgi, Chief Client Officer at Saxum, is passionate about taking the time to care and to fully allow yourself and others to have the chance to show up in purposeful conversation.

Host: Jess Dewell

Guest: Houda Elyazgi

What You Will Hear:

Show up, even if it is with a heavy heart.

We all have walls of preservation

Two question prompts for self-reflection and assessing your own psychological safety.

Patterns of behavior impact your psychological safety.

Focus on the outcome of your conversation.

Add your voice without creating a situation where another is scared to share their voice.

There is no magic formula, meet each person (and yourself) exactly where they are.

Ask questions because you care.

Three prompts to assess overwhelm in yourself and your team.

Additionally, for the Fast Track Your Business Today Uncut conversation:

Go the extra intentional step. Slow down to speed up.

If you don’t give people a chance to show up, they can’t show up.

Our assumptions hold us back.

Embrace your traits and what you can control.

Meaningful relationships are time and energy.

Personal values help you show up and anchor for purposeful conversations.

The impact our effort today has on our future.

It is BOLD to keep building collective experience through meaningful conversation.

Get started and make a difference in your business with a Growth Framework Reset.

Resources:

Three Elements of Trust

Transcript:

ANNOUNCER 00:03
Welcome. This is the Bold Business Podcast. Your business has many directions it can travel, the one true direction of your company creates the journey for you to move toward a new, exciting level. We call this the Red Direction. In today’s program, we delve into one idea. The idea will support you as you work on ever-present situations, including how to stay competitive in a changing market, how to break through the business plateau, and how to anticipate the changing expectations of your stakeholders. Just the will is your guide, just brings you a 20-year track record of business excellence, where strategy and operations overlap. Your Path comes from consistently working from the special place your unique True North. Now, here’s Jess.

Jess Dewell 00:51
Welcome back to the Bold Business Podcast, where we are talking about doing things differently, looking at things differently, opening our hearts and our minds and our guts just a little bit more to see what we might have missed to be able to make greater lasting change. And the best part about all of this is that not only will I introduce you to hood it in a minute, you will be able to get her conversation and all of the conversations that we have at the Bold Business Podcast by going to Red direction.com. And picking the platform with which you use to listen to those podcasts. I have to say, Red direction.com has a lot more resources. But really, we’re here today we’re talking about the podcast. And we’re talking about being here showing up having presence. And you know, this is a purpose-driven conversation that we engage in at every single one of our recordings. And we’re going to talk about that we’re going to dig into that today. And who are we going to dig into that with? Well, it’s with Hooda. And I lost your bio.

Houda Elyazgi 01:58
Fine. You’re already love your introduction, you can just say opening our hearts and minds with Hooda. Like, yes.

Jess Dewell 02:06
Isn’t that great? Yeah. Oh, I’m telling you.

Houda Elyazgi 02:09
No need for any further introduction. I love that. Oh, well.

Jess Dewell 02:13
Thanks so much. I do want to call out though. Oh, Hooda. See? That’s right. I do want to call out that you work specifically around clients, and around the client experience as the chief client officer at Saks Am I knowing that and knowing what we’re talking about, and the way that you intentionally show up in the world, what is on your heart and mind these days?

Houda Elyazgi 02:35
Well, just first of all, thank you so much for having me. I’ve been really looking forward to our conversation. But I think it’s all about showing up. You know, there’s been a lot that’s happened in the world, both globally, locally, I think that a lot of people show up with heavy hearts, right? So it’s like, how do you? How can you bring yourself to work light-hearted, when there are so many reasons to show up heavy-hearted, right. And so I think it’s really hard to focus, it’s really hard to be present when there’s just so much that can drag you down. And that’s been on my mind quite a bit. It’s like, how do you motivate a team when there’s just so much that can lead to an unmotivated team, a team that can feel discouraged at times? But you know, the reality is that there’s a lot to be inspired and hopeful about in the world. And you know, at Saxon, we are purpose-driven agency. So a lot of the work that we’re doing is focused on really important issues. And we really want to make meaningful, measurable change in the world. And we want to work with clients who are dedicated to making meaningful progress. And so I think that alone makes it a little bit more motivating as far as the work that we’re doing. But that doesn’t mean that it’s easy to keep a team encouraged and motivated. And so you still have to put in the work. And so, yeah, that’s, that’s been, that’s been what’s on my mind, lately.

Jess Dewell 04:02
Well, you know, it’s true. And what I’m noticing, okay, so let’s talk about what we see. And then maybe, and then it may be kind of, to peel that back a little bit. And what I’m seeing in a lot of places is that it either whatever’s going on in the world, and the community that brings the heavy heart is either dominating the conversation or completely avoided. I’m not seeing much and the companies that I’m working with in the middle, and in fact, I was in a team meeting this morning for Red Direction, and it was easier to avoid. And so I pressed a little and we stayed in that uncomfortable just a little and then I let it go because everybody’s like, well, I’d rather focus on this.

Houda Elyazgi 04:47
Well, you know, I think you bring up a really, really important point. You and I’ve talked a lot about meaningful conversations and talks and we call them both conversations. Our value I think this is why you and I connected so quickly is that our values are bold, brave, original, lively driven, it’s awesome. And to have a bold conversation, it means to run towards discomfort, right? Right. That is very uncomfortable for a lot of people. But the reality is that in those moments of vulnerability, that’s when those walls of self-preservation are shattered. We all have walls of self-preservation, we all are trying to protect our own self-interests. We are human at the end of the day. Yeah. And when you’re trying to create a human experience with another human being, sometimes that requires you to be vulnerable. And that requires you to show a side of yourself that may make you feel uncomfortable. But I also think, you know, I always, when I’m having conversations with my team, I asked a couple of different prompt questions. Sometimes we can be very self-inhibiting. So I says, Who says you can’t do that? Who says that you can’t, you know, have a conversation about these issues? And then what are you afraid of? Because I think at the end of the day, fear is what’s driving the lack of connection? Yes.

Jess Dewell 06:23
When we say okay, so let’s talk about that. And since I’m, ah, there are a lot of words in there, and they’re taking to form a sentence. And I think it’s because you bring up such good points, especially around when we face what we fear, we can shatter what’s holding us back. And there are times when, in that place of uncertainty in that place of fear in that place of self-preservation, that I would think is like the biggest clue that it’s time to have a different kind of conversation. Would you agree? or would there be other cues that somebody could also look for to be like, Hey, okay, I’m recognizing there’s something more here to explore?

Houda Elyazgi 07:20
Yeah. And, you know, I also wonder, too, is if there is, like a predetermined agenda that some people come to a conversation with. So it’s, I don’t want to open up because what’s the, what’s the agenda? What are the goals of the conversation? Do we have to meet in the middle? Or do we have to form a consensus? Does consensus mean total agreement? What does empathy look like? And I am throwing, I know, I’m throwing a lot of words into the mix. But I think that where I’m trying to drive this point, too, is what does the end of a conversation look like? And I think people are so fixated on the end, that they can’t begin a conversation. Does that make sense? Like, it’s almost like it becomes so overwhelming, that you’re thinking about, well, if I have a conversation, and we have to come to some sort of agreement, or we have to, you know, this tolerance mean, total agreement on the points. It doesn’t, it doesn’t have to mean that. And I think that if you don’t allow yourself if you don’t liberate yourself, to have a meaningful conversation with someone because you’re so fixated on, we have to come to a consensus, we have to form some sort of agreement, then you’re never going to have meaningful, honest dialogue, right.

Announcer 08:53
You’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast. We will return to the show soon. But first, I want to take a moment and give you a peek into what additional services and solutions you could access to Fast Track Your Business. This program was created to develop your capacity on demand by sharing insights, tips, as well as lessons learned by business leaders, unedited and uncut. And we don’t just stop there. There are three additional benefits to help you reach your growth goals. You will also have unlimited access to one, hearing tips and insights to develop yourself as a leader to get better results more often. Two, experiencing viewpoints from many different business leaders. Three, receiving frameworks to build core competencies and to more effectively focus on business growth and leadership. Altogether, The Fast Track Your Business program will allow you to face uncertainty, anytime, anywhere. You can access what will become your most versatile tool in your toolkit by going to FastTrackYou BusinessToday.com. Now back to Jess.

Jess Dewell 09:58
And this actually brings me to something that I Like, Oh, I could see potential confusion in some different things. Because this is, this is the place we peel back. This is the place where we can really dig in and go is what we’re doing the right thing to be doing right now. And I’m thinking about businesses. And I’m thinking about teams, right? So one of the things that we talked about at redirection is making sure there is an end. And you’re what you just said, is focusing on the ending in and that could be in conversations that could be for gold, that could be for anything. And it’s really interesting, because I’m like, Oh, I wonder if I’m not, if I’m not clear enough in that, because more of what I mean, and what we talk about what we’re working with companies to do is end so you can begin again, not end. So it’s the do whatever it takes to get to whatever that desired outcome is, which is a very, very different approach to that same concept. And so I hear you, too, it’s like, well, we want an end to the conversation. So we can actually go do something and get more information so we can start again.

Houda Elyazgi 11:10
And it doesn’t mean that you can’t make progress, right. So you can still engage in conversation and move towards a goal. But it shouldn’t. It shouldn’t lead to complacency, it shouldn’t lead to abdication. It shouldn’t lead to someone sitting on their hands. And, and avoiding an a difficult conversation or an or an important conversation, raising a flag when they should. I mean, that’s why you see some of these campaigns that are launched, and you wonder who was sitting at the table, advising, you know, strategy? Well, the reality is, there were probably people of color at the table when that campaign was launched, but they were afraid to speak up, or they weren’t empowered to speak up. You know, you talked about responsibility, without any accountability doesn’t necessarily lead to empowerment. And it’s really important to have both right. So you have to be able to empower those voices. And you have to create safe, safe psychological spaces, where people feel like they can speak up.

Jess Dewell 12:14
And Haha, it’s same thing in a different form. Did you make list? And are you checking the box? Or did you make the list? And did you check the box? And there’s actually the people in the room show up differently, too. And that’s really what I hear you talking about? 100%. So it sounds like, like, if I were to say this, you know, if I were to say, Well, how do we know when it’s time to do this differently? And it’s like, you don’t know you just do is what I’m hearing? Well,

Houda Elyazgi 12:49
I think that’s everyone is looking for, like some magic formula. Right? And I think that the reality is like, humans are complex organizations are complex. Yeah. And it has to be a customized and unique approach to each organization to each relationship. I always talk about the importance of meeting people where they are, and I know that that can be triggering for some people, because they’re like, Well, you know, it’s important to be aggressive, or knock down the door at times or, but if you’re knocking down the door, and they’re not ready to receive the information, right, then are you engaging in a meaningful conversation? Then you’re just forcing, forcing dialogue, right?

Jess Dewell 13:28
Well, and we know this, right, every single one of us can probably think of a time when our parents did that to us, let’s just, let’s just put it aside. And then every once in a while, I find myself going, and I’m going to use as a parent, oh, I just saw my dad, oh, I just saw my mom. And I didn’t like the outcome of that. What am I going to do here?

Houda Elyazgi 13:50
It doesn’t mean that disruptive media or dialogue or even challenge isn’t appropriate at times, but it shouldn’t be the norm, right, that sticks around and not the norm. And so how do you engage in meaningful dialogue that is rooted in trust. And building trust takes time, it takes time.

Jess Dewell 14:11
It takes time. And well, and the kind of trust you build is, is what where you put the time in?

Houda Elyazgi 14:18
Have you ever thought you invest the time? That’s exactly right.

Jess Dewell 14:21
And just and it’s gonna be interesting, because well, so let’s talk about that. How do you start that? How do you start building trust because people are like, Well, I have these relationships and they’re really strong. How do we take a little bit of a closer look at that and really see how true is

Houda Elyazgi 14:40
I don’t know if anyone else does this, but every year I used to, I don’t do this anymore because it felt very daunting. But I used to focus on word of the year. And you know, some people really like to set goals for themselves and I used to do all of it like a word of the year goals, you know, all of these things, but one year My My word was empathy. And the reason I think I selected that word is because it was after a pretty interesting election result in the United States. Yes, we won’t go into further detail, but it was, you know, for me, I’m based in Oklahoma City by choice. Oklahoma is arguably one of the reddest states in the nation. I am pretty hardcore centrist. And I’m disclosing that by choice. I mean, I want people to know, like, I later, I mean, the older you get, I think you become more and more apolitical. But some people become like more entrenched in their political. I don’t want to say ideology. But it does feel like an ideology at times. But the spectrum is wide. Right. And so I would say that I’m pretty firm centrist. But I think it was really jarring for me to know that I was living in a neighborhood where maybe my neighbor had voted for someone who was so openly racist, and bigoted. And I, and I don’t mean to call names because the reality is, I d,on’t know that person’s heart. I’ve never met that individual. But I will say that based on, you know, footage I’d seen on on the evening news and transcripts I had read, it was just it was jarring for me. And so I was like, I can’t assume that all of my neighbors are bigoted. I just can’t right. So how do I start to build empathy, like empathy became my word of the year. And it was really important for me, you know, you asked about what is the starting point? Yeah, I had to look inward, I had to start with myself. Because I realized, like, there was some rage that I needed to overcome, there was some, like, resentment that I needed to overcome. And I, you know, when I would go to the grocery store, it would start with me initiating conversation with anyone, right? Like, Hi, how are you with a smile on my face? Because the reality is, I had to start breaking down barriers. And I had to start seeing the people who lived around me as my neighbors. And I had to start building empathy. And so if you’re in a workplace environment, you have to start seeing your colleagues in a different light. And you have to build empathy. And that means asking questions, because you actually care not because you have to, right. You mentioned a checklist. It’s like, how do you move relationship relationships from transactional to relational? I’m not saying you have to be everyone’s best friend. But I am saying that when you say, how are you? It’s not because you feel obligated to it’s because you actually care. And if you don’t care, don’t ask. Right. And so I think it’s, it’s just how, how to be more human. Like, I was really trying to challenge myself to just be more human. And to try to be a truer version of the person I know, I want to be, and I’m not perfect. I still have days where I’m, like, grumpy meeting, you know, Miss Brown. And so yeah, but I think it’s like, that is still a word that and I joke that my words of the year haunt me. They still do to this, this, you know, to this, this year. But it’s empathy. You know, like, how do we build more empathy? And I think then you have these building blocks, right? And hot is probably not the night a nice word to say, but I mean it in a good way. It’s like that word has become kind of like a mantra for me. It’s like, it was the foundation that helps me. Yeah, build more meaningful relationships. And so it can be the foundation for meaningful conversations, right. But the reality is that the only way that you can really, truly establish trust with someone is that you have to, you have to overcome some of those challenges. I, there’s this really great tool. It’s a Harvard tool. It’s a triangle of trust. Ooh, yeah.

Houda Elyazgi 19:21
Have you seen that? Yeah, you’ve seen that one of the corners of that you have to basically shatter all of the walls that all three of those corners are really important to, to build trust, but one of them is vulnerability. Yeah. And you can you’re, you’re only vulnerable as if you have you expose, you know certain things about yourself. But we all have like that ego that we have to battle with the inner ego. And so I think that’s just something that’s always on my mind.

Jess Dewell 19:49
And you shared a lot about external right politics and where you show up and you’re right about the fact that it could become dogma And it’s always great to acknowledge, we do the best to learn and know the people so we can make an informed choice by arval vote, we will never meet all of the people we have voted for how lucky would it be if we would meet one to learn their heart, that’d be really cool, right? Or even to, and I’m thinking about when you take that back to work, or you take that back into your families, where we see a lot, it’s an interesting dynamic because we all have those things we wish we didn’t have had to deal with, and how we show up to them. And if we’re avoiding those really does mean and it really does mean something. I remember, I’m naturally a pretty happy person. When my husband met me, he goes, Wow, you’re naturally caffeinated. And I’m like, give me that T-shirt. Right. And sometimes I wear that as armor. And sometimes it is truly my true self. And I always ask people how they work. Because it was roped to me, it had become a habit. I didn’t care or not care. It’s just the thing I did. And when the first time, one of my mentors said to me, are you? Do you really care? Or you ask him because that’s the thing to ask. And I actually had to stop. And I was like, I don’t even know if I was that I knew I was asking you that question. So my first step in building self-awareness to be able to really understand and meet somebody else where they are is, is so that okay, well, I know where I’m at. So to know where you are. So I intentionally have started to choose and this I mean, this probably 15 years ago now. I will say good morning to everybody. And every once in a while, I’ll ask somebody how they’re doing, or I’ll follow up with something that they said to me later, because in the community, you see the same people at the grocery store, because they work there, and you go a lot. I mean, on regular basis, we all need food, that’s where we go for food in most of the United States. And then. And then out in the world, when I take a walk, I might see the same person, and I might start waving and I might say hi, and I might stop and have a conversation. And that those are the types of things where when it’s intentionally done or not done, it’s an incredibly powerful moment in time. So you’re right, when you were talking earlier about overwhelm, you’re right, when it’s easy to show up in the world, as we were taught told, or we’ve come to accept as the way we are, and not look a little closer at ourselves. And, boy, that one question how, how do you know? How are you? How’s it really going? And so when somebody asks me, I don’t do what my mentor said, that was the right time, right moment of, let’s knock on that door loudly, which I thought was great. Mostly, I’m like, off to pause and be really thoughtful. And I’ll say whatever was gonna say in one sentence, and I’ll either get, okay, that’s done. And I met them in that moment. And they saw me demonstrate really being present with them. Or we continue a conversation and I totally leave it up to them and me based off of my time and what’s going on, because let’s be real, I would love to show up for everybody where they are. But I can’t always have the conversations that I’d like to have, due to external constraints. Typically self-imposed, but external constraints. Nonetheless, right?

Houda Elyazgi 23:34
It’s so relatable. We all we’re all facing different challenges. A challenges look different for different people.

Jess Dewell 23:41
Yeah, they do. And so can you Okay, can you hit up? Would you describe I mean, people, people are like, of course, we all face challenges. So how do I meet somebody when I don’t know their challenge? Well, I would say, what if you looked at your own challenges and really defined them first? What would you say?

Houda Elyazgi 24:01
You know, I think it’s, we’ve heard a lot about like building resilience. Yeah. And I, I’ve thought a lot about that. Because again, I think it’s everyone’s looking for, like this formula that looks the same for everyone. And my experiences are unique from yours. But that doesn’t take away from your experiences or challenges. Correct. And I think that’s the same for my friends and colleagues. And what is required for you to overcome your challenge may look and feel very different from what is required for me to overcome my challenge. Yes. And so, you know, we partner with a leadership development firm at Saxum. And one of their, you know, part of our onboarding process. For instance, they take us through a personality assessment and help us discover our own leadership journeys. And one of their mantras is know yourself to lead yourself. And when I think about building resilience, So overcoming challenge, I think a lot about that mantra. And I think it’s important to consider one’s own needs when you’re facing a challenge, like, what do I need what’s required for me personally, like, I know myself, and I know myself enough to lead myself, right. So one of the tools necessary to overcome that this barrier, for me personally, and for me, you know, I’m an introvert, through and through. So I know I have to have space and time to recharge, like my energy. Because if I’m completely depleted, it makes it very difficult for me to perform at work, it’s I can become very short-circuited, I will like, snap at, like the people that I love the most. It’s important for me to keep perspective, you know, just understanding like, where I stand in the grand scale of things, whether that’s globally, depending on whatever challenge I’m facing, and then just maintaining hope in general. So, you know, keeping in mind that this is not going to be like this forever. That yes, I’m facing a challenge today. But the reality is, like, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. And so sometimes that is very evident and apparent when you’re facing a challenge, like you might be, you know, working against like a very specific deadline, and you know, when the end is coming, and other times you don’t, but just maintaining that hope and knowing that this isn’t sustainable, like it’s not going to be like this forever. I think that’s always really helpful for me personally. But again, that’s my roadmap to overcoming challenge and building resilience for myself, that’s not going to be the same for everyone on my team. And so we have conversations, like, how can I support you? So one of the things that I started to do is, when I noticed that someone’s feeling overwhelmed, I have, I have I offer them three prompts. I say, Hey, do you need more brainpower? More manpower? Or do you need time off? Do you just need a break? Right, because I think that the old me would have just like throwing more resources, like added more people to their team. And sometimes that’s actually adding more pressure, like they don’t actually need that, like. So brainpower is like, let’s just do a brainstorm. Maybe you just need like someone to help you think through a solution, right? So it’s really not like infusing more people on the team. Sometimes you actually need more man and woman power, you know, people power. So you just need more people to support your, your cause or the issue or the initiative. And then other times, you just need a break, you just need to step away and just reset. And that has been really great for us to be able to talk through some of the challenges that the team has faced.

Jess Dewell 27:51
I really appreciate when you shared, here’s my journey. And my journey is typically the same model. And usually, if somebody’s gonna ask me a question, I’ll be like, here are three things to try no skin off my back. But you asked me, so here you go. Because I want to be of service. But I also recognize I don’t have all the answers. And one of the things that’s different between our two approaches that I can just see in this conversation. So tell me if you see it differently, because I’m using this, of course, as an intentional conversation bold, let’s see if there’s anything I can shatter in this column in this conversation, or what could show up differently for both of us. Because by being here, we both have that opportunity. And anybody listening is opting into accepting the reality that they may have an opportunity also. And so I find that interesting, because I’m like, well, if I’m the person that doesn’t work in the store yet, everybody always asks me, I, what can I do? How so if somebody asked me a question, like, what are at least three points of view, I could pull in right now that I’ve seen, heard or learned from somebody else? And then I’ll be and that’s what I would do. I like, Oh, here’s what I do. Here are a couple of other ideas. None of those might work. But maybe it’ll help you get to the place you need to be. And, and that’s when it comes at me to help another. I did not have prompts before today, and we’re talking about overwhelm. And usually, I would watch, and I would find questions to open the dialog. But I never said I’m going to call it a shortcut. I’ve never been able to help somebody get to that fast without a little bit of self-exploration by them. And it sounds like and it sounds like it’s not a lot of work to just go ooh, now you have those three prompts. I’m curious, how long did it, how long did it take you to figure out that those are the types of prompts that could shortcut that help that person right away? Because if I’m going over, I’ll be real. If I’m in overwhelm, I really don’t want to do some self-exploration.

Houda Elyazgi 29:54
Yeah. I think that’s a great, great question. The reality is I, I didn’t realize this until this last year. Okay, so it was, it was having lots and lots and lots of conversations, very similar conversations with direct reports. I was like, I’m having the same conversation. And, you know, asking each of them these, this very open-ended question of what support looks like for them. Yeah, it was not working. It was that question alone was so overwhelming. So how can I support you? When I asked, how can I support you? That was almost like too daunting. And I even had a team member resigned over just that, like, they were just like, so burnt out. And it was like, the question alone was just like, I can’t do it anymore. And that wasn’t the point. Right? offering support is not isn’t it was not like intended to like, overwhelm the person to the point where they, they resigned, right? So what I realized is that, giving them prompts to help direct their thought process allowed them to kind of categorize the way that they were thinking about support, and what support could potentially look like. And even if they, even if they couldn’t come for my conclusion, it gave us a structured way to talk about it. And so we could almost like come to a conclusion together, because it allowed us to brainstorm, like what support could potentially look like, there. And then the reason I, I oftentimes lead, like the way I shared my experience with you, I do that with my team too, because I think it’s important to be vulnerable. Even if you’re a supervisor, being vulnerable with your direct reports is really important, because they need to see you as a human being. I think this notion that you have to be this like superhero, I’m a big fan of servant leadership, like, that’s, that’s the way I was raised. That’s how my mom and dad like raised me, like modeling good behavior, I think is, is something that scientifically has been proven to be effective. And so the reality is like, why wouldn’t that work in a professional environment. And so I think it’s important to make sure that you’re, you’re displaying one good behavior. So you’re, you’re, you know, modeling the behavior that you want your team to practice, and then to, showing and displaying these moments of vulnerability, and just saying, Hey, here’s how I would tackle this issue, but my way is different than your way. And I want to hear how you would, you know, tackle this issue. And sometimes I let them go first. Not let them of course, like it’s why I empower them, I want them to, I want them to go first. And so it’s, I want them to come to a discussion with solutions and ideas. And when, when someone is at a loss for ideas, you know, by, by sharing some of your thoughts, it can inspire and motivate.

Jess Dewell 33:03
Now, here’s and for those of you who are out there that are like me, and you’re listening to this, here’s my little realization is that I show up and expect that people understand when I speak, it’s from my perspective, and I’ll add to that. And one of the things that Hooda sharing is that it’s important to say it, and I’d love to know if you have a reason why because I have thought about it, but I’m like, Oh, can we just let’s just call this peace out. Because this is a, this is a big change that some of us may want to be making.

Houda Elyazgi 33:39
I actually I learned the hard way. So one of my mentors had made the comment to me, like you connect dots a lot quicker than most people, he just call that out. He said, you know how to you have to, you have to, like tell people certain things like, you know, the way that I may think about something in my brain is not necessarily the way that others might think about it. And so, I like to say make the implicit, explicit, it’s one of my personal mantras. So I mean, my, my team, if they, if they ever hear this podcast, probably laugh because they, they’ve heard me say that like 100 times. But I oftentimes say make the implicit explicit. And so if I’m thinking something, I don’t assume people know what I’m thinking. No one can read our mind. Right? And so when you’re trying to build a bridge with anyone, a colleague, a friend, a supervisor, a mentor, a direct report, whatever the case is, it’s important to just say, hey, here’s what I’m thinking. This is how it works working out in my mind. And I also I think, I told you, we do these personality assessments and we also have voices that are attached to them. My voices, which is not going to mean anything to your listeners, but I’m a creative feeler pioneer. And what that means is that I’m a feeler and thinker. But, you know, my personality assessment is very much so in the middle. And so I can be a thinker, but I’m more of a feeler. I think sometimes when I like things make a lot of sense in my mind. But sometimes when I articulate them, they don’t always resonate with others that are different personalities. And so when you’re building a bridge, being explicit, and trying to connect those dots for people is part of the process. It’s a part of that connection process. It’s how do you build those meaningful connections. And so when someone had pointed that out to me, and I realized by going the extra, making that extra intentional step of just stating that for folks, we were building deeper connections. It was a game changer.

Jess Dewell 35:50
That’s funny because I’ll get in the middle of a conversation. And I’ll realize like what you’re saying, and my little catchphrase for that is, oh, I invited you to the party but forgot to let you in.

Houda Elyazgi 36:02
Exactly. Exactly.

Jess Dewell 36:04
And, and I. So that’s fantastic to hear how the you are, you’re sharing that and in a way, another way to look at it and approach it. Because you’re right. We all have things that have been given to us, we have all things that we have accepted about ourselves yet. Does that help us create that purpose-driven conversation to build resilience and empathy and meet people where they’re at? That seems to be the question. Now for all of you listening, I need you to know that our conversation is going to continue. So you can go to Red direction.com and take a look at the Fast Track Your Business Today program. Because when you subscribe to that, you get access to the full-length episodes of all of the Bold Business Podcast, along with very specific content just for our community and asked me any things which are asked just anything’s but it’s always weird to talk about myself in the third person. So I don’t really like say that whole lot, as well as just knowing you’re gonna have more information, more access to all of our timeless content, the news, what out then, then is what’s on the internet today. All right, don’t forget red direction.com. Subscribe to your PA your favorite player for podcasts and make sure you get hooked as conversation as well as others into your feed that just shows up when we’ve got new content, which is about once a week.

ANNOUNCER 37:37
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