UNCHARTED: Long-Term Vision: Insights into Business Growth Strategies

Starting the conversation:

How do you make decisions when you are weighing speed versus strategy? Making informed decisions is something that directly relates to our risk tolerance and confidence in ourselves. Amanda Cromar, Camanda in Chief at COMtuity, candidly shares about her journey to pause for reflection and what it really takes to get people excited to face a disrupted market to change with her.

Sometimes, it is not about staying ahead; it’s about company survival. Owning exactly where you are in your business journey informs the goals you set and the priorities you focus on to drive transformative change. Spoiler alert: it is about slowing down, actually pausing, to speed up.

You will hear the importance of looking forward beyond 12 months when making strategic growth decisions, the benefits of making slow decisions, and the clues that tell you when a fast decision is possible.

Listen in as Jess Dewell talks with Amanda Cromar, Camanda in Chief at COMtuity, about getting people excited to change with you and finding your confidence as a CEO.

Host: Jess Dewell

Guest: Amanda Cromar

What You Will Hear:

01:56 You’re like a business therapist.

• The role of a business owner often involves solving complex, emotional problems similar to therapy.
• Business owners must balance emotional intelligence with decision-making skills.
• Identifying oneself as a ‘fixer’ highlights a proactive approach in both personal and professional capacities.

03:53 “I go directly into fix-it mode.”

• Acknowledging instinctual responses is crucial for self-awareness and growth.
• Recognizing personal tendencies helps tailor a more effective leadership style and find collaboration.
• It took Amanda three years to feel confident in the process of pausing.

07:26 I need to be somebody different to get us where we’re going.

• Growth requires adapting and changing personal approaches in business – it is cutthroat.
• Personal development: Who do I want to be? Who do I need to be?
• Transitioning into new roles based on evolving business needs is essential for progress.

09:00 I’m addicted to the pressures of change.

• Embracing change can become a driving force for innovation and motivation.
• There is real information in looking forward – more than 12 or 24 months into the future.
• Change management is crucial in fast-paced industries like technology.

14:07 Time killed my deal.

• The impact of time management on business success and failure is profound.
• It takes effort to be at the right tables with the right people. Amanda is creating her own table.
• Being proactive to grow my perspective, challenge me, and be with people who want to change through disruption together.

23:33 There’s only one way to eat an elephant, which is one bite at a time.

• Winfinity: blaze trails together and address risk, boundaries, dissonance, and find the right balance for right now.
• More upfront time means clearer understanding of how a decision looks at completion – what makes it a success.
• Strategic planning requires detailed, incremental action steps for elephant-sized problems.

31:11 I also know this frustrates people about me.

• Self-awareness includes understanding how one’s decision-making pace affects others.
• Learn the clues to know when it is ok to make decisions fast.
• I am more confidant and have much less imposter syndrome.
• Aligning business engagements with core values strengthens strategic direction to know exactly what you want.

52:48 It is BOLD to… Be the change, lead the change, welcome the change, and like, get people excited to change with me in their own way, not my way.

Resources

• People Before Things
• Amanda Cromar on LinkedIn

Transcript

Jess Dewell 00:00
That’s the biggest waste of time ever, and we’re talking about 20 minutes and we’re talking about two hours.

Amanda Cromar 00:05
We have dubbed that. We don’t kiss on the first date.

Jess Dewell 00:08
I’m so glad you’re here. Thanks for stopping by at the Bold Business Podcast. We are normalizing important conversations. Yes, there are tips. Yes, there are ways to solve problems. More importantly, are gonna be what do you need for yourself? To be able to solve those problems and make the most of the education, the training, and the programs that you are already using, this is a supplement to that. It can sit on top of it, fuel your soul, fuel your mind, and most importantly, regardless of where you’re at on your journey, maybe you’re starting out, maybe you’re ready to scale, maybe you’re going through a reinvention. The conversations we are having will help you at each of those stages. So hang around, see what’s going on, and I look forward to seeing you engaging with our videos.

Announcer 00:58
You are listening to the Bold Business Podcast. Where you will hear firsthand experiences about what it really takes to ensure market relevance and your company’s future.

Jess Dewell 01:09
Looking. More than one year in the future is necessary. When we think about how quick technology changes, it sounds like the opposite of what it would be. We need to move as fast as the technology moves, for example, and Sure. On some things yet not everything. And so when we’re looking five years in the future, we have a different mindset.
We have a different set of questions that we’re asking. We have a different way that we’re showing up, and we have a different way to use the pause. Not to mention the ability to really recognize and construct solutions that are forward-thinking, that are technology-driven, that do drive business success are necessary elements of what the CEO is doing for her company continuity. Amanda Cromar is spearheading her company’s mission, bold, results-driven technology strategies that fuel growth and foster lasting connections. In fact, collaboration, working together over time, getting to that place of dissonance and moving through it and growing together is what her business is based on. She is a trusted advisor and that comes from her dedication to her customers, her dedication to her employees, and the more she works with new and emerging technologies, the more she wants to keep talking about it. And that comes through in our conversation because we’re gonna be balancing out and talking about the juxtaposition of five years down the road and right now, five years down the road and right now will look different. We might make decisions different. Some of the decisions we face affect our culture, which are on a whole different spectrum of what do we do? How do we show up than what kind of a solution we can offer our customers? How do we work with problems that pop up unexpectedly? Another thing is that it’s okay to make slow decisions. It’s okay to say, I recognize this doesn’t have an easy answer, and not only the time might be less than optimal. The information we have isn’t enough to even understand and the power of not backtracking is enticing to Amanda. And the third thing that we talk about in addition to a whole bunch of other things, but this is the last thing that stuck out to me in our conversation, which is there are clues to help you understand whether or not it’s a fast decision to be made or a slower decision to be made. And usually, those slower decisions are related to that forward-looking. Where are you gonna be five years from now? What do you want your company to do five years from now? What are those initiatives today that are setting up your next, even if you don’t know how it’ll get done, you know what they are. I’m really excited to have you listen to the conversation with Amanda and I. Being a fixer, being somebody who likes to take action. How long did it take you to recognize that you are also a sensor? You’re looking to see what happens and you’re able to find these patterns across bigger periods of time.

Amanda Cromar 04:24
I really do feel like it relates to like my parenting journey, business owner journey, parenting journey. So business owner journey, I’m 10 years in. Parenting journey, I’m seven years in. So like they’re both my babies as, and I parenting probably I’ve learned the most about like self-reflection because I am not great at a pause. I go directly into fix-it mode. In the last probably three years, the pause to look at. The problem, but then what’s coming with it has held tremendously both as a parent but as like a business owner, probably more so. I don’t even know that.

Jess Dewell 05:13
So I’m gonna say something and I want that. I heard, but I want you to tell me if I heard right or if it sparked something different. And that is when I was learning to pause, I found out there was more data that was helpful to me in my decisions.

Amanda Cromar 05:27
Yes. So the pause more, so getting more data, but then also in the pause there’s collaboration. I am a creature. I’m very independent, but I am a creature that needs support. So I talk to, talk through it, talk, talk through it with a team of people. So at work, it’s my team, and then with parenting, there’s husband, my mom. She is, like I told you, and I’m like, shush. And then there’s like my mom tribe. So a collaborative effort to examine all of the data points to then know how I want to like come out of a pause.

Jess Dewell 06:11
Okay. So then that’s the flip side too. So has that ever held you back? Not making a decision fast enough?

Amanda Cromar 06:18
I think that it feels like that. Some decisions take a really long time. More so in the in business. I’m a slow processor in business and in conflict too, so it takes me seconds to process, and then in the moment I feel like you have to respond right away. You have to fix this right away because you should. But at the end of it, looking back at some of those moments, the pause and the delay to do the right thing was not detrimental. Probably more helpful, but there’s pressure in the pause. It’s like a pressure cooker until the right solution has come to fruition.

Jess Dewell 07:07
That’s interesting. Yeah. And you’re willing to hold it.

Amanda Cromar 07:10
Willing to hold it.

Jess Dewell 07:12
That’s not something I run across many people that have the willingness to sit. Not only in the unknown, not only in the uncertainty, but even in the pressure been around them. Usually the more pressure, the quicker we are to want to go, and the longer we’re there, the quicker we want to get into set.

Amanda Cromar 07:33
I think that bit me a few times actually. The good decisions. Yeah. I am quick to speak to people about it. But I am slow until it’s right. And I trust in the timing of that until it’s right. I’m, I sit in it.

Jess Dewell 07:50
So three years ago, was that a change for you? Is that was the time you were like, okay, I gotta do something different with my business? I wanna, I need to be somebody different to get us where we’re going?

Amanda Cromar 08:10
Yes. So three years ago, so five years ago, COVID. Pandemic and so you’re starting to figure out things are changing. And then three years ago I had a bit, I learned the hard way businesses like cutthroat obviously, but at the very cutthroat. And I learned the hard way how cutthroat it is. So then at the same time, I have a kiddo entering preschool hard years. Very independent. So it all came down on me at once, to be honest. So it was three years ago, was a catalyst for learning, for changing, or figuring out how do I want to be, what is the be? And I realized like the business growth was a huge driver. The child growth, the personal growth that was pushing a knee. I really wanted that change. I wanted to emulate the change. I wanted to be everywhere to create, to change the energy across the board.

Jess Dewell 09:18
Did you, do you feel like you’re through that and now you’re looking back? Or are you towards the finish line and looking back? Or are you somewhere in the middle like, oh look, we’re all.

Amanda Cromar 09:28
Now, I’m addicted to it.

Jess Dewell 09:32
I wanna know more about that now.

Amanda Cromar 09:36
I’m addicted to it. I’m addicted to it. It’s so hard. Right? I’m addicted to the pressures of change and change has been so hard for me. I’m so type A, so change is really hard and I need a team of collaborators. So it like takes a long time. But I’m addicted because getting to change and like being the change and now like pulling the people I want with me into the change it, I’m addicted to it. The, the unknown or the uncertainty or I, I don’t know. Maybe it’s the millennial in me because we face everything. We faced all of the things. So now we just live with high levels of cortisol and we’re addicted to it. I don’t know, but that’s where I stand.

Jess Dewell 10:25
I’m gonna, I’m gonna, yes. And you there? Why? Yes. And you know what’s interesting? Somebody said to me the other day, technology. When I was a kid, technology changed in less than years, but now technology is changing in less than weeks and so to talk. And you are in the realm of technology and providing services and seeing companies that have to implement these technologies and benefit from them yet always being faced with the new, the next, the best, the better. And that’s an interesting, so you’re in that

Amanda Cromar 11:02
‘I’m a glutton for punishment. It’s what I love about it, but maybe that correlates. I love what I’ve always told families is like, why are you in technology? You’re not, I’m not very geeky. Maybe I am now, but it changes so much. So every day it’s a new thing. Every year it’s a new technology we’re learning about, we’re implementing, but it is a glutton me for punishment because over the course I, in this industry for almost 20 years, what we installed for customers, we have now replaced like four more times. So it is a glutton for punishment. I love the change, the new, it’s fresh.

Jess Dewell 11:47
There. That’s yes. And. Let’s talk about change for a minute. I love the change. And you don’t, just the change of let’s try eating dinner at 6:00 PM instead of 8:00 PM or whatever it is. This is, let’s unplug this thing we’ve always done and let’s plug the other thing in because the benefit seems to be there in this way. Yeah, and doing that it takes. Okay. And doing that takes time. And so one of the other things I’m hearing is you’re comfortable with the time that things take. And I appreciate this conversation because most of us are like, I don’t even know how I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do today. I’ve got a bazillion decisions today that are impacting my tomorrow and the next. And when I hear you speak and the work that you’ve done to leverage those longer periods of time. Not only are you, it sounds like you’re good at it and you like it, but it’s also the sales cycle you’re in.

Amanda Cromar 12:45
It’s the sales cycle. Yes, it is longer sales cycle. So we really do focus on enterprise business, which means a lot of things to a lot of different people, and really it could be any type of business now, but their sales cycles are very long. The technologies that we. Can get creative with, and that brewing impacts that are typically more leading edge, take more time to get customer buy-in, to get customer weigh-in, and to get anything moving forward. It does take, it’s the time, it’s the ga, the time game, but also time is our worst enemy in a sales organization because time kills deals and some deals that were on our bucket in our plate in our funnel last year got killed because of time customer delay. They weren’t hearing what we were trying to pitch to them. Like I ended up researching a project two days ago actually, where for five years we had been recommending this specific new technology type to a customer for five years. We got a pilot contract signed in December, a couple, a year ago, and then fast forward four months, a different decision maker within that same business. Thought this is really super important, and did that project without us. For five years we told that business, you need this. This is great. This is why. But then time killed my deal.

Jess Dewell 14:28
Time killed your deal. So not only did time kill the deal from that way as far as customer delay, but it also meant that you were not in the right place at the right time when they did make the decision.

Amanda Cromar 14:37
Unfortunately, I was not on a golf course at the right time with the right person.

Jess Dewell 14:44
It’s amazing how important that is. [It is,] it is. And I’ll tell you what, and I’m gonna speak at a whole different level than this, but you make a good point. For people who don’t go out of network, not to net network at events, which are important, but to be with people doing something different than business like golf, right? It creates a whole different opportunity of connection and how people think and the way in introductions happen and decisions get made.

Amanda Cromar 15:05
It is, and it was one of those tipping points of like how I changed how I engaged with customers and the business. How I shifted in that because I am, I don’t wanna be looked over anymore, so changing that engagement has helped.

Jess Dewell 15:33
Share your thoughts and questions in the comments below. I thrive on your feedback and engagement. You’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast. I’m your host, Jess Dewell. This is your program for strategizing long-term success while diving deep into what the right work is for your business. Right now

Announcer 15:54
You’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast, hosted by Jess Dewell, a nationally recognized strategic growth consultant. She works with business owners and executives to integrate just two elements that guide business through the ups and downs of growth. Number one, know what work is necessary. Number two, do all the work possible. Schedule a complimentary consultation to find out more at reddirection.com.

Jess Dewell 16:23
You weren’t at the table and where that table happened to be at a golf course when the decision was made. However, you have also said, I’m, I’m not at the tables I wanna be. I don’t see tables I wanna be at. So what’d you do?

Amanda Cromar 16:38
Yes. So that was like three years ago. The big, the COVID thing, the business thing, and then not, and then realizing like, I, I wanna make my own table. I don’t wanna be a pawn at somebody else’s table, whether it’s a partner, whether it’s industry, whether it’s a supplier, or whether it was the customer table. So like changing how I show up to the business and deciding like I’m making my own table. And then starting to figure out who’s even on board to like join my table ’cause I’m just me. And I’m just me. So finding the people was interesting. And so many people who I thought were my people were not my people. And some of the people who I like super skipped over, turns out are my people.

Jess Dewell 17:33
Isn’t that amazing? And okay, so initially what made you skip over those people?

Amanda Cromar 17:41
Oh. What made me skip over those people?

Jess Dewell 17:44
Yeah. Like at the time, right? Going, oh, I don’t even…

Amanda Cromar 17:48
Assumptions. [Oh, really?] Assumptions that I made just like growing apart, like in a natural way, but then like things, catalysts of things bring you back together and you’re like, oh, like this actually really is my person.

Jess Dewell 18:08
Isn’t that amazing? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Cromar 18:12
I think and trusting in it, like finally making a decision to trust it. Like having the wherewithal it like in my gut, I know this is good.

Jess Dewell 18:23
Yeah, it’s worth the wait. [Yeah.] So I’m gonna come back to this. I want to make my own table. And that was strategic. And the reason you want. You might have already said this, so tell me if I’m repeating you in any way. You didn’t wanna be by yourself and you wanted other people to do this. Were there, were there indicators that said, meh, this is why I don’t, this is why I don’t wanna be at any of these tables? How did you find those indicators?

Amanda Cromar 18:51
Oh, at the other tables?

Jess Dewell 18:53
Yeah, because there were, that’s a big conscious choice to go, I don’t wanna be here, but this is my industry.

Amanda Cromar 19:01
That’s been a slow coming, I think. Okay, so here’s a good example back to like, how do I make decisions? I’m very collaborative in my decision, and as you’re coming to a problem and problems, so like I always relate customer engagement or supplier engagements where we’re committing to each other as a marriage, like we’re getting married. This is it for the long haul. You’re gonna be a customer for life, you’re gonna be a partner for life. And marriages always have issues. A lot. A lot. If. It’s because we’re growing and changing and we have to choose to do that together. So watching people not show up for our work marriage and then watching people not respect boundaries in our work marriage, that was definitely key indicators of I can’t be married to you and I wanna be at tables of people who really care for our relationship to thrive customers, but also suppliers and partners. Being competitors I actually have several competitors at my table who think the same way, who are ready to challenge the norm. And I don’t really consider us competitors because there’s just too much business to be had. They’re friends like they’ve known me for so long, they are the people who I go to where I’m like, this has happened. Has this happened to you? And what did and why? You’ll learn the best from other people because they challenge you. In Covid, I felt so alone. And then I think that’s about when we met and I was, it was very hard to see this like dynamic of somebody outside of me being able to really help me collaborate and get out of my head what’s happening.

Jess Dewell 20:50
Do you remember how long it took us from our first year?

Amanda Cromar 20:53
Right, Because I’m a slow decision-maker and, and it must have been five or six months.

Jess Dewell 21:00
More.

Amanda Cromar 21:02
Maybe four.

Jess Dewell 21:03
More.

Amanda Cromar 21:03
Was it really four? When we hired our very first employee, who’s now such a great person in our business? It took I think six months and he just patiently waited.

Jess Dewell 21:16
It’s okay. So sure you’re in a long sales cycle because I’m, I, I’m imagining what’s going through some people’s heads. We always have to make decisions fast. Maybe it’s because it’s a different business model. Maybe it’s because a different sales cycle. Maybe it’s this, maybe it’s that. Maybe. And I wanna just come right down to it and say, you can choose to make decisions fast and you can choose to make decisions slow. And when you choose whatever you choose, there’s an outcome of that. So what are you willing to work with? Are you and most in? In my opinion, and I would put myself in this camp a decent amount of the time of if I take an action, I can always backtrack. Sometimes those backtracks are, and I’ll also speak from personal experience, they are so big. It’s, what was I thinking? What if I not just pause before you make the decision, but pause and be in the pause and think about the things before you make the decision.

Amanda Cromar 22:12
It is. I’ve, okay, so the backtrack. It is. I’ve done the backtrack. I lived that backtrack. And I think after so many times of doing that and realizing I don’t have the time, I don’t have the path, I don’t wanna have to rework of having to step back. But I also know this frustrates people about me. The backtrack is too hard because you, I am a, you do what you say you’re gonna do person. And some of those backtracks left me in a position where. I had to hold myself honorable to that core foundation of who I am to a detriment, me personally, me financially, as a business in a relationship with somebody who said, but you said, and I had to backtrack, so I am slow. The thing is like in big. Quick decisions, fine, whatever. Those are easy to backtrack, but the big stuff where it matters, the elephant size problems is my daughter would say the elephant size problems. Like I don’t know what to do. And there’s only one way to eat an elephant, which is one bite at a time. You can know I need to make a decision about this, but there’s like a lot leading up to that decision as you are going that you can do to know is this the right direction before you’ve made that final decision. You can stop then if you’re like, no, this is this. It’s not that. It’s definitely that’s not it. And before you’ve gotten already to that decision. It’s not as big of a backtrack.

Jess Dewell 23:51
And I can give a, and you might have an example that I’ll ask for, so this will give you a minute to, to think of one, like I will tell you and we will just talk in terms of the podcast. I have a process now that anybody wants to be on this with me, has to have a minimum of a 20-minute call with me so that we can get to know each other. And there’s a few reasons for that. Before I did it. I didn’t know what I was gonna do, and I knew what my commitment was to our listeners and to our audience and what we were trying to build, and I found myself on more than one occasion expending too much energy, so it became a detriment to me. I could not keep up with the amount of shows we had with the energy that was required when have a conversation with somebody when there was a mismatch of their goal to what we could actually do for them in the audience that we are talking to and the people we are trying to support and who want to come listen to our programs. And I also found that, having a little bit of connection before meant we could get deeper into the conversations faster, and I was actually backtracking or having longer recordings or doing more to try and do all of this and it was a detriment. It was a detriment when I couldn’t support their goals because who they actually wanted to talk to are not the people that are listening. That’s the biggest waste of time ever. And we’re talking about 20 minutes, and we’re talking about two hours in, in general in those two times. But heck, I’ll take a 20-minute yes-no-go for the percentage of what that actually is, to then use that whole other time. That’s a big percentage. We could save that, we could save ourselves to say no ahead of time.

Amanda Cromar 25:31
We have dubbed that, that we don’t kiss on the first date.

Jess Dewell 25:35
Ooh, I like that. Yes.

Amanda Cromar 25:39
Back for until, ’cause we’ve kissed on the first date and you put this huge time investment in and it’s just, it’s not right. And so it’s been when somebody wants to work with us, Hey, work with me, do these things with me. And we’re like, yes. And we have to provide the sales, we have to provide the leads. We’re providing it, but there’s no value when it press because we kiss on the first date. So we do have a philosophy because as I mentioned before about it’s a marriage, right? Uh, we don’t get, we can’t kiss on the first date anymore or if we’re going to choose. You have to know the risk and the boundary. People didn’t get along. Not everybody is dusted to have this connection. So that 20 minutes does matter.

Jess Dewell 26:28
It does matter. And it might be the right, and here’s the other thing. It might be the right person for the podcast, and at the same time, there may not be a connection to make it easygoing. So at least. We know ahead of time and that act, what does, hopefully, hopefully none of the guests ever feel that, but that’s, that’s something that we’re doing. We’re like, okay, so we’re gauging, you’re right. How much is this gonna be? What is this gonna be? And I use the phrase winfinity. I know you will, girl. We talk about winfinity a lot. And so that’s my thing. I’m like, if I can’t winfinity, we can’t do this. I don’t mind, I don’t, I don’t mind conflict. I don’t mind dissonance. I don’t mind anything, especially if we can get to winfinity. That means that’s juicy and awesome and fun.

Amanda Cromar 27:08
But I also think as women, maybe for me more than as you, but like in my industry, there’s a bit of automatically I’m not in. So I can’t always also like judge that first conversation. So IS the win. They, we do have to consider the winfinity, which by the way, I really do think we should trademark.

Jess Dewell 27:36
Okay. I can’t take cr, I can’t take credit for it. I borrowed it because I got a blessing to borrow it. And it is, [it’s so good] perpetuating. I know.

Amanda Cromar 27:45
But cons, considering that it does it, the winfinity at the end of the day is what matters. The, with them, nobody cares unless there’s something in it for them.

Jess Dewell 27:55
The risk of the boundary. And then what else would you say? So in the winfinity, it’s okay if there’s risk. It’s okay if there’s a boundary. It’s okay if there’s, I said dissonance. Is there a better word for that?

Amanda Cromar 28:07
No, because I think that it’s part of, it’s part of it.

Jess Dewell 28:14
I agree. I think that if everybody always gets along, we’re accidentally in silos and some people…

Amanda Cromar 28:20
I just read something about that, one of the, one of my favorite executives who actually began his own business to consider people before things. Look that up, people before things. He’s fantastic. And now I hope I can find what he said, but he had said, oh, I found it. You don’t identify your pro, top priorities to solve your problems in a vacuum. Your team needs conflict or whatever you’re doing needs conflict within the four roles to help you understand what’s even possible. And then you can work through the messy conversations to the solution. But until you get people to weigh in, they’re never gonna buy-in. So the dissonance is part of it. The conflict is part of it.

Jess Dewell 29:07
So an example I have for you might be when you changed your compensation structure. [Oh yes.] Another time. Slow decision. Very slow decision.

Amanda Cromar 29:19
Very slow decision. Can’t mess with people’s money.

Jess Dewell 29:21
No. And that’s, you don’t exactly. Let me put myself everywhere. Nope. Thanks. Don’t mess with my money. Right? [Yep.] It’s gotta be right. Is it sustainable? Does it support on our goals? What else?

Amanda Cromar 29:36
Oh, in the comp plan change, does it support the goals? Is it sustainable? And in, in a few years are we’re gonna have to change it again. Like it can’t be based on one person has to be based company-wide. And the biggest thing is that I see in especially technology companies is annual changes and it’s always a lose. Like the employee is losing. Our household has experienced that directly. I know friends who experience that directly. The quotas are higher, the, it’s just harder to win. And I knew from my company culture, like I didn’t want that. So finding the right balance was hard, and it did take a really long time because changing people’s money is hard for me, but then very hard for them. Um, but I, I think where I landed in that comp plan change, which was one, like a quota in some commissions because if the company grows, we all win. But two, the we all win part. How do you make that compensable? How we ended up making that compensable, every quarter that I get to report on our company winning, my employees and the team are like so into it. It feels good, and, but it did, it did take two years to come through.

Jess Dewell 31:03
How long has your newest person, your newest hire of your team today, how long have they been with you?

Amanda Cromar 31:09
Full-time, newest hire. Three years in part-time is six months in. And she came part-time, came to us because of the culture. Because of who we are.

Jess Dewell 31:22
So longevity. You’re out. You’re past the two-year go. The two-year go out. You’re past the two years ago. Yeah. Know what I mean? So that’s what I wanted to highlight. I like this is a win. This is a huge thing. This is a win slow decision. Making it work all the way through. And to your point, everything you were saying about I get to elevate, I get to talk about, I get to do this, and everybody else sees it and they buy in more too. It’s sha buy it, they wanna work here. And then to your point, your newest person, even though they’re part-time, they wanted to be with you because of their culture.

Amanda Cromar 31:59
Yeah, it’s huge. It’s awesome.

Jess Dewell 32:00
And it’s intentional.

Amanda Cromar 32:01
Very intentional.

Jess Dewell 32:02
And it’s not fast. This isn’t actually, it’s not a pressure cooker and it’s not even a slow cooker. This is just you. It’s just evolving almost. [It evolves.] It evolves.

Amanda Cromar 32:16
There’s a Nigel flow to it, and that’s something that for like my right-hand nanny’s been with us for nine years, took me forever to hire and now like we’re lifers. But the evolution of that has been really meaningful and I think that it’s challenged both of us in cool ways.

Jess Dewell 32:40
And you also have things that change quickly.

Amanda Cromar 32:42
Oh yeah. We are fast-paced.

Jess Dewell 32:46
You are an incredibly fast-paced organization.

Amanda Cromar 32:48
But some of those decisions are easier.

Jess Dewell 32:52
Why are they easier? What makes one decision easy to act on? Or what’s the clue that says, I should probably take this one slower, or I can make this decision fast.

Amanda Cromar 33:02
The clue would be because I’m considering like my team versus, ’cause there’s decisions that we have to do for our businesses and then there’s decisions we make for our customers, recommendations we make for our customers, but like shelter and bubble them in the same way. Like we have a customer with a huge project coming up this year. And I took a phone call from somebody who was like, Hey, so like when do we get to bid on this? And we’re so excited and they already work with this customer, so it would make a lot of sense. And my answer was it’s, it depends, and it depends on you and like your longevity within that business and your executive team and your current company is debt. And in five years, are you gonna put us in a position where we have to migrate this network again? So actually, that decision’s gonna be really difficult as well. And that recommendation decisions of who do we bring to the table with the customer and who do we maybe recommend long term? Because again, the customer is marrying wrists company. This project has to be successful because we’re involved, so there’s no fail at. So the slow down of the who. We’ll have to be really important ’cause once we start rolling, it’s gonna be fast.

Jess Dewell 34:25
I’m your host, Jess Dewell, and we’re getting down to business on the Bold Business Podcast. This is where we’re tackling the challenges that matter most to you with actionable and achievable advice to get real results that lead to your success. Don’t forget. Press that bell icon so you never miss a program. And, it’s time to subscribe as well.

Announcer 34:22
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Jess Dewell 35:06
When you were talking about, it depends. You’re not only looking at your goals and your initiatives for this year and next year and a few years out, and then your long-term strategic plan, you’re looking at theirs. [Sure. Mm-hmm.] That it’s, it has to be aligned. Be aligned.

Amanda Cromar 35:25
Yeah, there has to be alignment or there won’t be success. That alignment is a dance.

Jess Dewell 35:32
And do you naturally, do people naturally come to you that are willing to do the same work? Or is it truly you’re actually saying no to people who are coming to you because you are recognizing this before to help everybody?

Amanda Cromar 35:49
I think we’re attracting the right people now. [It took a long time.] It takes a long time, but also there’s some wrong people. I think we’ve had a couple of conversations recently where we’re like, that’s not aligned. There’s been a couple of cus, current cus, like customers that we’ve had for a long time. Maybe new people have come in, maybe new people have gone out, but there’s been situations where we’re almost ready to be like, this is no longer a sustainable engagement for you or for us.

Jess Dewell 36:20
And the sooner you recognize that, the sooner it can come out.

Amanda Cromar 36:25
It’s so liberating [for everybody] for everybody.

Jess Dewell 36:29
Because usually there’s dissonance on both sides that has something underneath it, and in that underneath it, that’s really where the problems are. It doesn’t matter what you say. It doesn’t matter how you communicate. It doesn’t matter what the plan is. It doesn’t matter if it’s on time. There’s still this feeling of whatever that hates [you just can’t win with some people.] No, and that’s okay.

Amanda Cromar 36:47
But becoming unemotionally attached to that. [Ooh, yes.] That’s probably some deep work that we have done is, and I think I said that earlier in this call, like a business is so hard, like it is so cutthroat and people are people and people are human and being like unattached to some of those outcomes and definitely taking the personal attack out it, but it’s really liberating.

Jess Dewell 37:20
It’s. It’s making new space. Right? We talk about this in like business sense. The liberation is not only is that a win, not only is that an acknowledgement of, I’m leading this company the way that I wanna be leading it, and we’re doing right by the people who are here. And we can say that there’s confidence in that too. Then, there’s just space made for the other.

Amanda Cromar 37:44
Now there is. Three, four years ago I was like, girl. we’re winging it.

Jess Dewell 37:50
Okay, well let’s talk about that.

Amanda Cromar 37:51
To fake it till you make it.

Jess Dewell 37:53
Oh, I think there’s some of that all the time, but it was way less today, I would say. And let’s talk about your confidence in all of that too, because I think you were taking pauses, but I don’t think you were intentional about them. I think you changed the way you paused in your slow decision-making because, by the way, in the life of time we’ve known each other, you have not increased. If it’s a slow decision, it’s gonna take its time. There is no way to speed those up, and I think that’s clearer to you and what you’re doing in that time is much more intentional. Would you agree with that?

Amanda Cromar 38:26
Yes. There’s like a trust. There’s a trust that like my gut., in my like ability to read a room, I’ve struggled. So imposter syndrome, right? So being a woman in a man’s world and being young, even with the resume or I don’t know what you would have you, but like you have to prove something all the time. And so not having the confidence. So I do think tr, learning that like my wait. Is right. My pause is right. The outcomes are what we’ve been seeking. The financial ups and downs are survivable. That was something I know, even if, even when we can do this and with people who want us to do it.

Jess Dewell 39:22
I remember when one of my early companies, when our biggest client left and we had a relationship with them. But we thought we had a better relationship than we did and they left and didn’t tell us one day, the one day the well would dried up. [Yeah.] And we were like, now what? [Yes.] What are we going to do? And we had not planned. That’s actually one of the reasons that I now plan what happens if, what does our client list look like? How are we doing some of these things and making sure that is actually something that is thought about and that is common knowledge because if we’re not all thinking about it in a company, regardless of who we are, we’re not gonna achieve our goals. And that’s huge.

Amanda Cromar 40:04
Oh, yet. I think it’s a foundation too, of like how comity was structured by the previous owners. So previous owners started the business in 2005 and then immediately was hit by two th the 2008 downturn, the economic recession and so they put your head down and just work and do best for your customer’s mentality came about then. You just do. You do what you said you were gonna do and it will work out. But then as we started chasing the enterprise customer, then you get really lopsided. So once we became that lopsided company, every ounce of willpower went into replace, replace that revenue. And I think collectively as a team, it took us like six years to level our scales out again. And thank God of that mentality because not only do we grow, but we still haven’t lost that customer. They’re still with us. Most of our customers have been here from the beginning, and so you grow. But if something happened, leadership changes a pandemic, who knows what could ever happen. It can very quickly teeter.

Jess Dewell 41:17
So knowing all of those things and knowing that work, what are some of the things you are looking for listening to, for feeling for, to say something is up with my customer or I need to look at the overall makeup of our customers?

Amanda Cromar 41:35
Okay. But it’s an art, it’s not a science. I think I’m very good at the art of that. However, I was called paranoid very recently.

Jess Dewell 41:47
What, okay, gimme some context now. I’m curious ’cause I’m like, there are a lot of things that I know of you, but a paranoid is not one.

Amanda Cromar 41:57
Paranoid is not one. I think the context was, I always plan for the worst. Internal to my team, they call it Amanda’s bored syndrome probably. We’ll be so busy, and then I’m like, no, guys, let’s slow it down. Slow the business down. We’re not curing cancer. Let’s do well. And then I get the itch. And the itch is like, why is this customer not talking to us? We haven’t seen this customer for lunch. We, we should go golfing with this customer. And then I speed us back up. And, but I do think the person who, this person who titled me paranoid see, sees me from the outside and not on the team. Uh, maybe not at the table. We’ll see. But when I consider the landscape of our industry and private equity and mergers and acquisitions and carriers, you’re doing great. And then two years later are just like acquired and there’s no, they’re, then they’re like completely bottomed out. And at the end of the days, our customers are what suffer. And then if our customers are suffering, our reputations are like really suffering. And to make it right. We’re spending extra time to fix it. And there’s time and money. So I do in my slow down consider and ask very hard questions to people like, are you gonna be here in five years? And what happens if you’re comp plan changes? And what do you like about your business? Not as hard about business that was seen as potentially like paranoid for worst-case scenarios. But I think planning for the worst helps you succeed in the best.

Jess Dewell 43:33
And, there’s a reframe to that that’s really good. I know I’m gonna be here in five years and I hope I’m working with you.

Amanda Cromar 43:43
Yes, and that’s really [what I is cool] because you though people aren’t ready here.

Jess Dewell 43:52
And in this kind of conversation and longevity, having it with customers and clients and just acquaintances in the business, could we ever collaborate competitor? Does this make sense? Sort of friend and an adjacent business, right? Whatever that is, it’s slow. But if we’re not having the conversations, if we don’t have the same long-term goals, whatever we do, short term is going to not have the same impact.

Amanda Cromar 44:17
No, and the impact really should be like back to the winfinity, like whatever we are recommending is the right solution for a customer that then that remain for a long time.

Jess Dewell 44:30
And there’s an, okay, so now I’m gonna come back to that parenthood ’cause it’s actually, there’s another piece too. Duh. We’re in disruption in our industry.

Amanda Cromar 44:37
So not that’s fair.

Jess Dewell 44:41
So if you’re not, what’s going on over there? Come, it comes back to infinity and longevity. Is that why I don’t think you add…

Amanda Cromar 44:47
Everybody’s seeing it yet. And like people are, people see what they wanna see and like I’ve stopped watching the news because I don’t wanna see that and. I follow independent news sources and like my mom asks me when I’m gonna put my foil hat on. So.

Jess Dewell 45:03
I’ll put mine out with you.

Amanda Cromar 45:11
There’s a lot of disruption. Disruption in the technology space from I think maybe it’s stunning to private equity, but I think some of this disruption would’ve happened anyway, and maybe it’s just like parts of getting your stripes. So I love watching Below Deck. I am a reality shark junkie. My name is Amanda. I love escaping into that reality, but I wanna be the stewardess that like, or I wanna be the captain, like I wanna get my stripes that I can put on my lapels. So maybe some of it. The disruption is just as your business grows. Like you, you can’t even predict the things. I was just gonna say, naughty words. The things that you go through.

Jess Dewell 45:55
You can’t. And not only is it like a litmus test of where are you at, so I know how to engage you for our best possible effort. There’s also a, oh, this person is actually looking further, so maybe there’ll be a time we’re sitting at the same table. [Yeah, and I think it’s all along that spectrum.] It’s all along that spectrum. So what are, you’ve mentioned when I take pause as I’m intentional and I’m asking these questions, how often does that happen for you?

Amanda Cromar 46:23
I’m very bad at it. [On purpose?] Busyness is a dysfunction of your business? [Yeah.] I do my best to intentionally think about the business several times a month. It’s not probably what it will be in a few years, but it’s more than what it was before. I do find though, that some of my best, so think about the iceberg, like this, much of it is out of the water, and so I’m always working on this like we can talk about our goals. Yay. Like I worked on my goals and. Last year’s goals were so good. You’re always working on it a little bit, but I think probably the deep, like what’s under the water that we don’t really see, I’m not spending time dedicated to that. Like that deep stuff is always in the back of my head, so it’s coming up. When I’m working out, it’s coming up at 2:00 AM and at 4:00 AM sometimes 4:36 AM which is annoying because my alarm goes off at 5:10 and then sometimes it’s like on, I do these power walks with a couple of people who are in tech and some who not are not in tech. And when you’re just like out of the office and yeah, Chit, chit-chatting, that’s when some of the deeper thing it worked on for me. [So then they have to get to a certain point where they’re actually in those several times,] and then once it’s come to the surface, then you’re like, okay, I got it. I’m like, dedicating time to this.

Jess Dewell 48:01
That’s cool to know because I actually think that’s true for most people.

Amanda Cromar 48:03
But it also makes me feel like guilty business owner because when you’re not working in the business doing a thing, I’m doing a thing. I am. Doing my business and you’re like onto the next task. And so I’ve actually struggled with it this week especially the tasks are getting done and then there’s just this space and some in the on the business space, but sometimes it’s hard to be in the business and on the business. And so then you’re just like not doing anything.

Jess Dewell 48:34
That’s true. I have a solution for that. It just takes practice. That’s it. No, it’s a Present Retreat. You’re doing it a couple times.

Amanda Cromar 48:44
Well, I’m trying harder to do more dedicated Present Retreats. I do remember this makes me giggle. [I can’t wait.] I was like, oh wait, what is this Present Retreat? Where are you taking me? And like how often our allowed time and you know…

Jess Dewell 49:02
Exactly. Oh, and you’re making more time than you did before. [Oh yeah,] you’re right. And here’s another shift though. So it’s, so maybe it doesn’t look exactly like somebody’s path, which by the way, I’m the first person to say it doesn’t matter what the path is, it’s gotta be customized no matter what. All can really be as a framework. But then the next piece of that is the more that stuff bubbles up when the time is right, it’s gonna show up in those present retreats because they’re already dedicated time, whether it’s two hours or four hours or 15 minutes, it’s whatever we’ve got and. Sometimes we just have to have grace and embrace that. I think that there’s something to be said for that because, and I would say then maybe what I’m hearing you say is, I know when the big stuff is coming up that’s under the water attached to my iceberg. Whereas before, it might have been thinking about it, but I might not have known that these would be strategic or thoughtful.

Amanda Cromar 49:53
Don’t know that I was even thinking about it before. The busyness of a business is dysfunction and I was existing and we’re busy. And because we’re so busy, we’re doing so well, which was true. The business was doing well at that time. But then getting rocked by life, you know, it, the slowdown has helped a lot. I think that then the company grows, then your table changes. Then as you’re sitting down at the executive tables, like your energy is, is different. Those conversations go much quicker, easier, faster.

Jess Dewell 50:29
And that’s where that time savings happens, and that’s where getting [yeah,] under happens faster. That’s where you can get to the root and we can be like, all right, we’re eyeball to eyeball. Let’s just be real. Real. Let’s just be real. Real. [Yes.] And people are willing to meet us there when we take the time to get ourselves there. [Yeah.] Yeah. Okay. so I wanna know what makes it bold. You faced a lot of uncertainty, you’ve faced a lot of growth, you’ve faced a lot of change. What makes it bold to face uncertainty and change as it’s showing up?

Amanda Cromar 51:00
Personally, I think it makes it bold because go being type A person, I need to know what is a plan? Are we turning right at this light or are we turning left at this light? And I really need to know so I can plan. The bold would be, uncertainty has allowed me to realize I wanna be the change. I wanna control what I am because that’s the only thing I can control. Thank you, parenting. That’s, that probably came from parenting, but it’s both babies. Be the change. Lead the change, welcome the change, and get people excited to change with me in their own way, not my way. Be changing their own ways that we can change and grow together. I think that’s what makes it bold, but I also think like from a technology perspective, living in and existing in a five years out mentality and bringing, leading and believing ed technologies to the table. That’s the drive I wanna be in technology change. I want companies, maybe when I talk to you about it right now, you’re not ready. But I wanna talk about it so much and so loud, and I wanna evangelize some of these new concepts so that like when you are ready, you remember me. I don’t wanna get passed over anymore. I don’t want the time to kill my deal. So I really pushing a customers to be uncomfortable in the change with me. Because technology’s changed. Let’s change it together. That’s what I’m pushing for on both fronts.

Jess Dewell 52:44
Every single time I have a conversation, I take away something that I wanna share with 25 people. I know when you’re listening to this podcast, you are also listening for that and will have something that you want to share. In the comments, I would like for you to engage with us. What is that thing that you wanna tell 25 people from this program? Here’s why it’s important. It’s important because yeah, there are gonna be how-tos, yes, there are gonna be steps. Yes. You’re gonna be like, oh, I wish I wrote that down. I wish I wasn’t doing this, and I could actually take action on that right now. But guess what, you’re not. So engage right now because that one thing you wanna share with others, will be the thing that you can figure out how to incorporate in your business, in your workflow, in your style, tomorrow.

Announcer 53:33
Jess hosts the Bold Business Podcast to provide insights for building a resilient, profitable business by deeply understanding your growth strategy, ensuring market relevance, and your company’s future. It is bold to deeply understand your growth strategy with your host, Jess Dewell. Get more information about how to drive solutions and reset your growth mindset at reddirection.com. Thank you for joining us, and special thanks to our post-production team at the Scott Treatment.