As a business owner, it’s difficult to do the right work AND guide your company toward its next big initiative.
With Red Direction Business Base Camp, learn how to implement and handle processes to meet your business’s specific needs and better understand your market.
Starting the conversation:
Optimism by itself is not good enough for decision-making. Pragmatism is also needed.
Creative solutions have constraints. One way to identify the impact the constraints really have on a big business decision is to consider the downsides. Finding out the root cause is still elusive, or continuing some part of the work will hold you back.
It takes courage to face what could go wrong. And at the same time worst-case scenario exploration increases creativity, identifying weaknesses, and most importantly building a strong foundation to tackle challenges.
Here are three benefits to thinking through downsides:
- Choosing to focus only on the positive can create blind spots which hide potential problems.
- Worst-case scenario exploration is a way to identify weaknesses.
- Knowing what you can control sparks creativity and possibility while remaining realistic.
Tune in to this It’s Your Business program with three people passionate about consistent action to create accountability. You will hear from Quentin Ortega, Founder and Lead Consultant at QCO Consulting; Christy Maxfield, President and CEO at Purpose First Advisors; and your host, Jess Dewell, Managing Partner at Red Direction, discuss the upside of downside thinking to achieve success.
Host: Jess Dewell
Guests: Christy Maxfield and Quentin Ortega
What You Will Hear:
3:00 The situation will never be as bad as you imagine.
- How is your confidence perceived, and how are you ensuring you don’t believe your own hype?
- An outside set of eyes can reflect and question (with compassion) to ensure you are facing reality.
- Reality is the place to identify and think through your options.
- Zombie apocalypse scenario with a timer is a way to reign in catastrophizing that might occur.
- The way we engage ourself matters. Do your work to really know yourself.
20:08 Think like you are in a negotiation.
- Be ready to find the best alternatives that include important relationships and your safety net.
- Ask: Where do we hand if this doesn’t work out?
- Data you know you can know: core financial numbers, pipeline health, marketing results
- Reframe what you think you know to ensure solving the right problem.
- Be sure to ask yourself if you can continue to do this the way it has always been done.
39:40 Working through worst-case scenarios helps you build muscle memory when you are in the thick of it.
- Know your controllables and nonnegotiables so you can choose how to show up.
- Use your SWOT with what you can control to make in the moment decisions with confidence.
- Lean into the way you lead: from your head, heart, or gut.
- Ambiguity is part of strategic leadership, make sure you have space in your days and weeks to accommodate time to work through elusive and difficult situations.
- Results include: peace of mind across the company and reiterate the way we do our work.
3 Takeaways
- Three Phrases:
- Success leaves clues
- Know who you are
- Include people that are not an expert nor a novice
- We are the greatest vulnerability in our business, know your identity in relation to your business.
- Which opportunity is best right now? Practice thinking about worst-case scenarios so you can use your muscle memory facing the unexpected along the way.
Resources
- Are there downsides to resilience?
- How to woo your worst-case scenario
- Pragmatism and the worst-case scenario
Transcript
Jess Dewell 00:00
I’m so glad you’re here. Thanks for stopping by at the Bold Business Podcast. We are normalizing important conversations. Yes, there are tips. Yes, there are ways to solve problems. More importantly, are going to be what do you need for yourself to be able to solve those problems and make the most of the education, the training and the programs that you are already using. This is a supplement to that it can sit on top of it, fuel your soul, fuel your mind. And most importantly, regardless of where you’re at, on your journey, maybe you’re starting out, maybe you’re ready to scale, maybe you’re going through a reinvention, the conversations we are having will help you at each of those stages. So hang around, see what’s going on. And I look forward to seeing you engaging with our videos.
Quentin Ortega 00:48
If you know your warrior, if you know you’re an overthinker if you know that that’s going to happen to you then then make a plan to deal with it. And then stop and allow yourself to refocus on what’s next.
Christy Maxfield 00:59
The ideal description of the person you want to get feedback from is they know enough to be knowledgeable, but not too much to be an expert because they’re going to see things that the expert is blind to and the novice can pick up on and
Jess Dewell 01:11
I love this new phrase, it’s gonna show up everywhere. Success leaves clues. And this is one of the things that I really liked about our conversation today.
ANNOUNCER 01:23
Welcome to It’s Your Business, brought to you by the Bold Business Podcast. This is your go-to source for navigating today’s ever-evolving business landscape. In this program, Jess, Christie and Quentin share the realities of current business challenges and triumphs. Get ready to lead with depth understanding and achievement.
Jess Dewell 01:46
This is the It’s Your Business program. And I want to say thanks for being here. Thanks for stopping by on YouTube. Thanks for stopping by on LinkedIn. Thanks for joining Christy and Quentin, we are all here. And we are talking about navigating the ever-changing, ever-evolving business landscape. And I’m your host, Jess Dewell. And we’re getting real. We’re getting real hear about current business challenges, and our triumphs. And how do we get more of those because I recently learned that I and I love this new phrase, it’s gonna show up everywhere. Success leaves clues. And this is one of the things that I really liked about our conversation today. So get ready, lean in, let’s lead with depth understanding and achievement. Christy tell us who you are.
Christy Maxfield 02:31
Christy Maxfield, Purpose First Advisors, we are strategic growth advisors who also help owners plan their exit and succession plans.
Jess Dewell 02:39
Quentin, tell us who you are.
Quentin Ortega 02:42
Quentin Ortega, president of QCO Consulting, growth, strategic Exit Planning and negotiation.
Jess Dewell 02:49
And I’m Jess Dewell at Red Direction. And we’re doing strategic growth work to break through those business plateaus to get you where you want to go next, based off of the success you’ve already had. So we’re talking about the upside of downside thinking. It’s interesting how this came up. I know we have these conversations every once in a while. And of course, we decided to put it into a conversation that we could invite others to join in with us to have and to work with. Because we’re in a world of positivity. We’re in a world where we only want to share things that are working we are in a world where we want people to just see the certain thing. And it’s great to live there. And at the same point in time, there’s a lot to go with that isn’t there, Christy and Q.
Christy Maxfield 03:29
It is embracing reality, and not being afraid of it. And to echo what you said before, we’re trained as business owners to project an A level of confidence, right? It’s part of what inspires people to work with us as employees, it’s part of what inspires investors to get on board, it’s part of what inspires customers to keep coming back. And so it’s, and we can also become vulnerable to our own hype, so to speak. And it’s really important sometimes to take off those rose-colored or purple, whatever works for you color glasses, and take a hard look at the things that you don’t talk about in public. Like we’ll talk about revenue in public, but we don’t necessarily talk about profitability. We’ll talk about increased sales, but we won’t talk about increased expenses that went along with it, right? We’ll talk about high-performing teams, but we also have that person who isn’t working out and who saying goodbye to is a lot harder than we thought it was. So whether you can come to terms with that reality yourself or you need an outside consultant advisor to help you do that’s one of the things I think coaches advisors, consultants do extraordinarily well, when they’re good at it is to say, let me share with you what I’m observing. And let me share with you what you were sharing with me and let’s see if those things actually line up and do it in a way with love and compassion. so that we can handle a difficult conversation. But ultimately, we can face reality.
Quentin Ortega 05:05
Because yeah, I was just thinking, as you were saying that about how I often call that role like an executive thought partner, right? So with some of my clients that I have that way that I think all three of us fill this role for various people, but having someone whether it’s a consultant, or a good friend, or a spouse, or just a trusted patriot, right, who you can talk to who really understands what’s going on in your venture. But who is not tied to it? Should it start to sink, right, because I think everybody is tied to their venture. And you need that person who is I care about this. But I can also tell you the reality, right, because I’m not, as in it can’t see the forest for the trees to reference. The old adage, having someone that’s near enough to know what’s going on, but far enough that they can be real with you is, I think, invaluable for business owners, entrepreneurs.
Christy Maxfield 05:52
Adam Grant and his book originals talked about how that’s the ideal description of the person you want to get feedback from is they know enough to be knowledgeable, but not too much to be an expert because they’re going to see things that the expert is blind to and the novice can pick up on. So I think starting with, we’re talking about the upside of downside planning. I’m not here to suggest that all reality is bad. But starting with reality gives us a really good scenario to start with in terms of what could happen in the future. And we were talking earlier about is there a difference between downside planning and scenario planning? I think downside planning is very specific about what are the what’s the downside to doing X, Y, or Z, whether that’s launching a new product, bringing on more stats getting going out for a round of fundraising, what’s the downside, if we do this? Scenario, planning, just in general, as a topic concludes that but also includes all the other things that could happen? What if we go what if we do this, and we increase revenue by 10%? What happens then, right, and actually plotting out the decisions you’re thinking you’re going to make? And what do we think the consequences of those decisions would be good or bad? So again, starting with reality, allows you to then run those scenarios in a way that makes the most sense. We’re not starting from a false positive or a false starting point.
Jess Dewell 07:24
There’s a skill that I’m listening to here. And yes, there’s a discernment piece in there. But there’s also a, can I be detached from this? And that would just separate from can I? Can I have no judgment? Because those are two different places. And I’m learning the difference between this. This is a place I’ve been playing personally in, in my journaling and in my personal development, but also then bringing that into when we’re working in strategy sessions. And when I’m doing my present retreats, and when we’re solving problems as a team, whatever that is, how, where are we getting in our own way? Because we think something is negative. So the reality I’m going to add to this, the reality could be, there’s neutral here. And if we can start and state, whatever it is with neutrality, then we can go. So do we like that? Do we not like that? Is that positive? Or is that negative? And I know that I’m just going to pick neutral in the middle because it’s easy to visualize, and it’s easy to go, Okay, I know what neutrals feel sounds looks like. And that allows for a place of the same question to be heard differently, to explore.
Quentin Ortega 08:39
And the reality too, is that most of the time, the result will be in that neutral space. Right? I have a, an example that just popped into my head, a friend of mine who’s launching a an investment fund right now. Right? So he’s gathered funds from other investors, he’s about to place his decisions into the marketplace. And I was talking to him the other day, about how is he attracting more investors? What does that look like? And his and then we went through just in conversation, what is the like, worst case scenario, right? If you make the wrong decisions, how much money does your investor pool lose? And then also, what if it goes really well? And then what are the if you make them 10x? What they thought that you’re what, what is what is the plan? And we went through that exercise? Not necessarily because needing to not because those investors are asking about that. They obviously believe in him already. They trust that this is going to work. But really, because depending on which one of those happens, there’s a different operational strategy that he needs to have ready, meaning it translates to, if it’s going poorly, how do I rebound? If it’s going really well? How do I use that positive experience that positive track record to start leveraging, finding more investors? Starting a second fund? What is that path? And spending time pre-thinking about that halfway, because you don’t want to be surprised. At the end of the day,
Christy Maxfield 09:58
Most folks will resist The idea of planning in a formal sense, because they have the disposition that plans will always change. So why bother planning, right? But it’s not necessarily about following a plan. As much as it is about familiarizing yourself with the various plans you might need to employ depending on what happens when you actually your product meets a client or a customer. When your staffing plan actually starts for rollout, when you decide to go into a new market, if I can think through the iterations of what that might look like, I have this ability then to pull different thoughts and actions much faster. Because I am, done some of that work. So in previous conversations, we’ve talked about the difference between learning in the way we’ve all been taught in school versus just in time learning. And just that I would put this still in the just-in-time category because we’re usually talking about relatively short timeframes. Yes, I can try to imagine what 10 years out will be. And that has its use in my planning process, I can think about five, I can think about three. But really, I’m doing all of that, to think about what has to happen right now is that’s where I want to be what has to happen in real-time right now, to make it to increase the likelihood that’s where I’m gonna go. So this gives me more strength and resilience. And she likes to say it’s never as bad as you think whatever scenario you can come up with, is probably far worse than what reality is going to throw at you.
Quentin Ortega 11:42
And the example that we brought up Christie when we were talking the other day is is the zombie prep, zombie preparation kind of example.
Jess Dewell 11:49
So before you do that, I’m gonna say I’m going to actually make this the answer to Ann’s question, what do you think about that? This is good. And you asked a question in our conversations before the livestream. So we’re gonna pop it up here and is interested to learn how you handle worst-case scenario thinking without going into Castro phising or kest. Being catastrophe. Wind, going to what? Yeah, going right over the ledge. And, okay, take us there, Q.
Quentin Ortega 12:19
One of the things that I always tell people to do is to plan, plan to work right. So allow your if you’re a worrier, if you’re an over-thinker, if you know that’s going to happen to you then make a plan to deal with it. And so, a lot of times I suggest clients like set a timer 10 to 15 minutes, and at the end user of minutes to just let yourself run, but it’s deep and fast and off the cliff as you can with what might go wrong. Because a lot of times, just getting it out is super helpful. And I would also say in that timeframe, write it all down just it everything you can put on paper or typing if you prefer but my messages handwriting and and I would say just getting it out of your head is super helpful, right? I’ve had this note actually behind me right here, which you can’t read has been on my boards since college so well over a decade at this point. And it says Drebin do, right, which is which there is an author that I could attribute that to I don’t remember which one it is. But that’s the idea, right? Just spend the time getting that word out of the way. And then stop and allow yourself to refocus on what’s next.
Jess Dewell 13:21
In as you were speaking Q one of the things that was coming up for me was, it’s interesting to consider the work that we do now, all it does is help us in the future. So some of us out there are going to be like my sister, and I’m using her as an example completely lovingly, she knows if this is supposed to happen, she’s got a plan. And it might have the number of steps to N A to m. But somewhere along the way, like right around g, there’s a turn guess what she’s already thought about steps a through whatever, for the deviation at step G from the original path. And there’s these things and she has thought through all of these and she sets it up so that I am executing what I have already thought through. Because she’s leaning into I know how to do I can show up. I thought about this when I was rational and logical. And I’m not now. So here we go. And I think that’s an interesting concept. Right? And one way to do it, I do not do that. I fly by the seat of my pants. I’m making decisions from my gut all day long. And all week long now. Yes, I have help. Yes, I do the work to have a cadence. Yes, we focus energy for Jessica in specific areas and for Red Direction, specifically on purpose because of that tendency to fly by the seat of the pants. But if I didn’t stop to think about what could happen if I didn’t stop to think about what are the resources I have now? What are the tools that are available to me right now. So when I am making these decisions and crazy stuff happens that’s neutral. Lee looked at first to decide do we like or do we not? Is this positive? Is this negative? Even if I don’t like it and it’s positive, maybe it’s a good thing, thing, we can ask questions about that. And so that’s what I would add to this part of the conversation is, there’s enough there’s other ways to so just on the way that you work, and everything we’re talking about today, adapted from the way that you work to know, the purpose of this is to do put energy into it have had some shape about it because as we’re going to talk about later, there is value in just having the thought.
Quentin Ortega 15:26
While you were saying that Jess, I realized that there’s actually a theme to these monthly events that we’ve been having, which is really just like, knowing yourself, and how you work is what helps you master how to do all these things that we talked about.
Christy Maxfield 15:40
Based on how you operate and how you work…
Quentin Ortega
When everybody’s got their own way
Christy Maxfield
…is actually taking action. So I don’t know your sister, I’m sure she’s lovely. But if she knew that if she only thought or A to M, and she never did A or B, or C.
Jess Dewell 15:56
Oh, she’s doing those. She’s not one of those who did the thinking and skipped ahead or quit altogether. But yeah.
Christy Maxfield 16:01
Caught in that overthinking. I would say that’s problematic because we actually can’t test any of the ideas that you’re having. Or if having a thought is valuable that anything on the thought is also valuable, so that you can learn something and get some kind of feedback. Oh, the ovens hot, I’m not going to touch that again. It’s too humid outside, I’m going to dress more appropriately, whatever the case may be, you’re getting feedback, right? It’s gonna go recorder, right in August in St. Louis, because that just sounds awful. She’ll before it, Winston will decide that there’s different ways you can plan for the worst in order to be more prepared for gradients of bad. And we’re gonna bring up a silly example. But truly think about it in your business. The worst-case scenario is are you close? You cease operations. Perhaps as a part of that you have to declare bankruptcy. Perhaps as a part of that you have to pay back loans, you owe your debt. I don’t want any of those things. All those things sound horrible to me. But death is not on the list of things that will happen if my business doesn’t go well. And I know she’s going to talk more about this too. But because I’ve also done some risk mitigation. Being homeless, going hungry, not having my loved ones around me is also an extraordinary outlier. As a as an owl as an outcome to my business. Might I have to go get a job and do something I don’t really love? Yep, that, that might happen. That’s a distinct possibility. But the odds of my entire world falling apart, me and my loved ones dying, and it being something I can’t recover from. Because I’ve thought through what could happen because I’ve taken risk mitigation strategies, because I’ve done other things to create a safety net means that I’ve probably negated the absolute worst things that could happen now. It’s just what are the really bad crappy things that could happen with zombies?
Quentin Ortega 18:08
Surprisingly enough, we were talking about that zombie example. Right. So there was a big push from the national safety agencies here in the US to tell people to prepare for zombies. They even put out commercials that were zombie-related and stuff. And really, that was because obviously, they we hope that they’re not actually preparing us for zombies. But if you’re prepared for if you’re prepared for zombies, you’ve done the steps necessary to be prepared for other natural disasters and emergencies. And I think that’s what we’re saying here today to right as prepare for the worst. Or hopefully, it doesn’t happen. But at the end of the day, being prepared will make you better, more equipped and quicker, should need to be,
Jess Dewell 18:48
I was gonna say a key piece of this is that just means we need information. We need to know ourselves, right? That’s what we’ve been talked about. But we also need information. And I know, I know, that’s big on your heart and mind to cue earlier
Quentin Ortega 18:59
I mentioned and when Christy was talking about this kind of range of what’s the best way it could go, what’s the worst way it could go. And I spend a lot of time actually talking through with people like kind of those, that range. And part of that comes from my experience as a professional negotiator. We talked about a term that we use there that I like to spread and try to get in as many people’s heads as possible is BATNA bat Na, which is best alternative to negotiated agreement. And what that really is, is that saying, hey, when you’re going into a negotiation, what’s the kind of if we don’t if we don’t work this out? Where do we land like the example I’ll use because it’s easy, right? If you’re going to buy a car, and you can only pay $5,000 and the lowest the dealership is gonna get to $10,000 Okay, we’re never going to we’re never going to meet. So if we don’t meet what happens, right, and that’s your downside planet, right? It’s Do you have a car that’s still okay. Do you or do you need a car right now? Can you use lift for a while until you find a different car? That’ll, that fits your budget, what are these alternatives? And the other thing about going into any negotiation is generally speaking, most people would agree that the person who has the most information that is the most equipped is going to have the highest likelihood of winning the negotiation. And so I think that this is really about information gathering, like you suggested arming yourself with what is the worst possible scenario? What is the best possible scenario, and then talking through everything in between and I, Christina, your example, I regularly when people when I encounter, you know, owners who are worried about they’re stressed about a decision or thing that’s going to happen? I usually start out, will you be homeless, and because the possibility is there, but like, a lot of times to just setting that extreme kind of anchor point for them makes them realize, oh, actually, we’re going to be fine, this change, or this thing that happens, or this concern, or this new deal is it’s not going to make or break us, but it is going to have impacts. And by setting that extreme anchor, then we’re able to work back towards where the real floor is finding that real or based on where that extreme one is.
Jess Dewell 21:12
I’m going to be just so you know, there’s so much data we have at our fingertips, we’ve gotten numbers, do we look at them? We’ve got prop to Christine’s point at the very beginning, we’ve got profitability, are we choosing to look at it, we’ve got expenses? Are we actually watching them closely? We’ve got resources of the people that we are choosing whether it’s vendors or employees or partners, and how are we working with those relationships? What is the capacity? Do we have overlap? Do we need it, we have all of this data already. And so when somebody says Know your numbers, what that means to me is I want to know by product, how profitable you are, I want to know your top line profitability. I want to know your top five expenses and why they are important to have as your top five expenses. And then and there are some others too, but I’m just thinking that off of my head, what do we need? Because here’s the scoop. A lot of people out there in the world, if you just go Google, how do I solve this problem, they’re gonna be like, cut people cut expenses, cut, whatever. And you know what, you got to know your numbers to know if that’s a good idea. Because sometimes it is, a lot of the time. There’s another way. And if we’re worst case, scenario planning, when I think about business, and I think about the need to contract, one of those things as people feel like they’re like, let’s just start closing things down. Let’s drop products, let’s stop relationships, let’s save money. But we don’t understand why we’ve done the things or we forget to look at that. And that’s a really big part of where we’ve gotten too good we’re in a growing pain. Or maybe we do have to contract because we’re not growing the way we expect it to. We can actually pause then, and go cool. So what questions do I need to ask what information do I actually really have?
Christy Maxfield 22:55
I thought of a few things while you’re all talking. But when Q mentioned the car example. The solutions, the alternative between getting a car or not getting a car focuses on the solution, I need a car. But it reorients it if you think about how am I going to solve my transportation issue. If the solution you’ve come to isn’t tenable, I want a car, that probably is the best way to actually solve that problem to live most places in the United States. But there’s other ways so can you shift your thinking to what am I trying to solve for versus Why am I choosing this solution? Why is this the the dichotomy I’ve put myself in, so I took that out of it, it opens up your thinking a lot more about how you could potentially solve for what you’re trying to solve for. The other thing is, okay, maybe your business failing means you are going to declare bankruptcy and lose your home. That happens to people. It happens every day. That if we can acknowledge that’s a reality and that you’ve made choices that make that possible. Then what other choices can we make now to reduce the likelihood? It’s literally Okay. Call mom and dad call aunt and uncle Call Best Friend call agencies in your community, if this happens to me what’s available to me, because you might not be able to undo it, you might not be able to avoid that. But you can start to line up resources so that if the worst-case scenario does come to be, you’re not trying to figure it out in the moment, it’s the thing that came into my head is it’s like planning your funeral, right? Because you don’t want your loved ones to have to make these really hard decisions when there’s lots of emotion. And you don’t want to be making these decisions while you’re shutting down reparation, firing people canceling contracts, losing your home, you don’t want to be like I wonder where I’m going to sleep tonight. I’d like to have a couple plans in place if that’s going to be and then your point just if I’m not Add all the numbers to the path. So this way the cache might be to reduce redundancy. But it might also compromise me if any one of my other scenarios plays out. Because we’ve seen one an entire economy suffers when the emphasis is on just in time, and there is no backup, and there is no redundancy. So where does redundancy and contingency fit in your planning as a way to deal with those possible scenarios, right in the upside and downside planning, as you may identify a bunch of resources that can help you deal either with current reality or possible reality? You can also make decisions that makes you less vulnerable. I eliminate this redundancy. It does one good thing for me, but it has potentially does four bad things for me.
Jess Dewell 25:51
Okay, now I’m going to flip that to quick positive of the reframe. Usually, our vendors all are offering similar services. So sometimes choosing the vendor that has the most impact for us in one way and can overlap and take care of another service is actually a great way to go. Because we reduce the, the premium, if you will, because we’re not actually using the whole thing. So how are we using our relationships? There’s a big piece of that, too. What all do you offer? Am I maximizing the money that I’m spending with you? Am I am maximizing the investment that I have made with you? I think we do that internally, with our personal development of people with our views of people. We do that in our quarterly planning and our annual strategic planning, right? So why not do it with our vendors too?
Quentin Ortega 26:42
Was just doing this. So with a company that I work for their payroll company, I basically said, what else does this company do that you are they’re working on establishing some other processes? And turns out payroll company has this whole suite of stuff that they’re like, oh, yeah, we just have to turn it on. Right? Like, you just have to ask us to turn it on. And you being sure that you’re leveraging, make sure you fully understand what all of your vendors what all of your partners have going on. Because sometimes they’re too busy to tell you, even if they shouldn’t be telling you right, even though they should be selling you on all these other things that they could do for you. You might have to go ask them, right and look for those resources. I think that one thing that came to mind, with what you guys were just saying to as a good reminder about this topic is really remembering that like the same way it’s always done is not necessarily the solution. This time doing it the way we’ve always done it is sometimes why you need to do this planning, right? Because it is. And so Chrissy I thought about when you said the car example, again, and you said really what you need is transportation. So be sure that as you’re, as you start the process of downside planning, that you’re actually planning for the real problem, right? Because the problem in that example is not I need a car. The problem is I need transportation. And there might be other alternatives that you’re overlooking. If you’re just thinking I need a car. So I think that idea of this is the way we’ve always done, it oftentimes gets in the way of people during this process,
Christy Maxfield 28:09
We work with a lot of owners to who have inherited the business, or who bought into the business, they are not the founders, they haven’t set the tone and tenor. And a lot of times those other relationships get pushed down. Because there’s more urgent things to do. I think of a client of mine who the person her parent used to do business with in different spaces, whether that’s insurance or supplies or things, those folks just aren’t there anymore. And so the incentive to stay there might have been diminished, the upside of staying there might have been diminished, and simply not having the relationship might put her at risk versus taking the time out to develop that relationship, we’re often told that one way to deal with a downturn in the market is to have a relationship with your banker in case you need money, right? Very few of us are like, Oh, it’s a to sunny Tuesday, everything feels stable, and I’m thinking I’m gonna call my banker and schedule lunch. But you don’t want to call we’re gonna It’s Friday, and it’s raining and the business is flooding so to speak, because that call may not get answered as quickly as the person who did have lunch on a Tuesday.
Jess Dewell 29:23
I’ll give a real example. What I’m actually going through and evaluating a very big process we’ve had for a very long time, and it changes but it doesn’t change. And so to the point, as soon as you said the way we’ve always done things, I’m like, Oh, I talk about this too. And I’m so glad I’m thinking about this. So here, let me just tell you right now, I am actually in the process of evaluating a very big thing that we do and the way that we do it. And I will tell you, I the conversation I have gone out and I’m having separate conversations and I’m asking what the goal of the conversations is, did I accidentally create Jumping? Did we decide to do something that is irreplaceable? Or is what we’re actually doing something we made? That’s actually what everybody else is already doing. And can I just tell you, I was very scared about this. I was very scared about this, because I am doing some contingency planning, I am making sure that if one piece were to fall out, this affects everything. And turns out my first of three calls, I’m super excited to report back. Why No, I do have a reality sanity check the things I’m doing makes sense. And they’re not that far out of the norm.
Quentin Ortega 30:39
So first off, always a relief when I call it.
Jess Dewell 30:42
Yeah And I know one of the things that had come up is, Are we avoiding it? Or are we actually purposefully doing this? I actually think I was looking at this and going, Okay, I understand this is going to be a problem. But then there were a couple of things that started to happen that went, made me like really scrunch up my face. And that what would I actually do? What if this actually happens? And then it was, Oh, I haven’t thought about this enough. I didn’t reframe the problem and make sure I was solving the right problem. I was going Yeah, everything is okay, right now. So I can put this off. And I really, still can. But let me tell you, one close call was all it took. And you bring up a great point, this boiler boiler is the thing that usually the hardest to replace in our businesses, us. We’re also the most likely bottleneck, and then the bottleneck, but I am not the problem, or I’m not the thing that would break in this one. No, put me in someplace else,
Christy Maxfield 31:39
I’d be both thinking about it. So you have three people who get together roughly once a month to talk about what we do and how we do it, and what we think about the things we do. And all of us focus on growth, strategic growth, with purpose and intention around profitability and sustainability. First and foremost. None of us separate out secession planning or Exit Planning from the growth discussion, because we know that they’re intertwined. Right. So even though the owners aren’t coming to us and saying, usually, I’m ready, though, helped me go and I’ve got three to five years and I’m fully prepared for the emotional roller coaster that’s going to be we shouldn’t rush calm conversations to say, Have you thought about what would happen if you were unable to process payroll? Because you’re the only one who’s done it, 30 years.
Jess Dewell 32:36
Q, I’m still stuck on the wait, you had a call like that? I was worried.
Quentin Ortega 32:40
I think that you hit you hit a inside industry joke for her Jess and I just said we get very light, like a call like that ever.
Christy Maxfield 32:49
I would like to sign a revolution overload question that last many years. Sounds predictable?
Quentin Ortega 32:55
I’m so ready.
Jess Dewell 32:57
I’m in your line. How long is my wait?
Quentin Ortega 33:03
Anyway, if anyone out there feels that way right now, please call in any of all of us immediately.
Christy Maxfield 33:11
We’re actually really down for many years of frustration and uncertainty.
Jess Dewell 33:16
Oh, yeah. How many people will say that to you in life?
Christy Maxfield 33:20
But we’re also always looking at growth through the lens of now it what’s the upside of this? What’s the downside of this, particularly if this person ever does want to sell and we whether you say you’re never going to retire or not. We hope to God you will write that that’s your that is your advisors. secret wish for you is that you don’t work every day for the rest of your life. Even if it is the thing that makes your heart beat faster, we hope that there are a few other things that make your heart beat faster. And that you there will come a time where they get more of you than rather.
Jess Dewell 33:58
Which is why we’re talking about this right now. And this is important right now.
Christy Maxfield 34:02
If you can think of the, the upside of you retire, the upside have you step aside so somebody else can take the house and the upside of doing a transition both not only of wealth, but of leadership, values and continuity. If you just look at the upside of making sure your business can sustain your employees who care deeply about and continue to provide a valuable service to your customers and be an integral part of your community. Like there’s lots of upsides to planning something that feels innately uncomfortable. There was in my feed this morning, Harvard Business Review was like why you’re avoiding retirement and I’m like, it’s the same reason. And the three things you don’t know who you’re going to be without the business. You don’t know who you’re going to be in relationship without the business and you’re afraid you’re gonna lose a sense of purpose. Right? None of those have to do with EBITA profitability, staffing plans, business growth trajectory. but they are the things keeping you from thinking about those things in ways that eliminate you as the downside. .
Jess Dewell 35:08
Ooh. And that’s why we’re talking about this right now you’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast where we’re talking about, and having conversations about the reality of things in a neutral way so that you can laugh with us when we laugh. So you can cringe with us, even if we’re not cringing. It’s okay. That’s what this is about. We’re having the conversation. And we’re making it hopefully more normal for you. Because really, the downside thinking is something that we do avoid. It’s hard. It’s easy to say, well, everything is good right now, it’s easy to say, I’m not ready to think about that yet, when we have this plan is what we’ve been talking about. We’ve been talking about, it’s never as bad as the things on your house to just do and we’re getting down to business on the Bold Business Podcast. This is where we’re tackling the challenges that matter most to you with actionable and achievable advice to get real results that lead to your success.
ANNOUNCER 36:06
Focused on growth? Listen to more programs like this, which support the challenges and opportunities you are working with right now. Search Bold Business Podcast for the key terms at Reddirection.com Or your preferred podcast listening app.
Jess Dewell 36:22
We’ve been talking about negotiating the agreement and having all of the information and what that actually looks like and who was talking to you about this why Christie is talking to you about this Christy give us your little your intro again.
Christy Maxfield 36:36
Christy Maxfield with Purpose First Advisors, strategic growth, advising as well as secession and Exit Planning.
Jess Dewell 36:42
And Quentin.
Quentin Ortega 36:43
Quentin Ortega, author of QCO Consulting, strategy, growth, operations negotiation.
Jess Dewell 36:51
And I’m Jess Dewell, the host of the Bold Business Podcast, and I’m glad to have it’s your business be a part of that. We even found our ideal client, and you heard it here first, Christy said it out loud.
Christy Maxfield 37:00
And she were making emotional side of business ownership, which is actually probably two thirds of what your gross planning will entail. If you think you’re going to scare us, if you think you’re going to show us something we’ve never seen before I dare you. Right, I say to people, something I haven’t seen before I want a new story, right? Not because I’m gonna go tell tales out of school, but because the more I learned and experienced more valuable I am to other people, right?
Jess Dewell 37:28
I can say, oh, that actually did happen to somebody don’t do that. We got to face these things. And we’re I think that’s the thing you hit on normalizing the conversation about all the things we don’t necessarily want to talk about. And really, what we’re talking about here is how do we make it some muscle memory, right? You never forget how to ride a bike might be awkward at first. But if you haven’t been on a bike in many years, but if you learn to ride a bike, it’ll be awkward, but you can do it. And it doesn’t matter if nobody’s looking at you, or you decided to get on a bike with 25 of your closest friends and you’re gonna go uphill for 10 miles, whatever it is, whatever it is, you’ve got muscle memory. And that’s actually where I think this part of our conversation comes, can really get tactile and actually, and putting some of this into place. Because we talk a lot. And we’ve also given tools across any of the extra businesses, you’re going to get ideas and tools to help you start planning right away. And I thought of one that we haven’t talked about yet, which is funny because it’s my favorite one to help us with our muscle memory, as we’re going into this thinking when we’re deciding. And I’m going to use the word present retreat because that’s what I do. And or my strategic intensive. So once a year I do is strategic intensive, and I’m bringing in an outside set of eyes, because I will have rose-colored glasses because I will need my own assumptions challenged. And that is what we’re doing for our clients as well. We’re doing that in a safe, forward and real way to make good quick progress forward. And so I wanted to talk about a done just go old school, a dynamic SWOT. Okay, your strengths, opportunities, weaknesses and threats. Let me just tell you, I was when I was thinking about this and preparing last week, it was, of course, our business has won. So if we’re going to take all the data we have, and we’re going to think through the worst-case scenario, we better be real about what we’re weak at. And I said Know Yourself earlier, and I’m gonna say it again here. I have a SWOT just for me. I suggest each and every single person have their own SWOT for themselves. And the departments in general, it doesn’t have to be like super granular, like some of them have to be, but we have to know where things begin and end and we have to know what could be in the reality with of what we’re working with for our muscle memory because if I’m going to take all the information I can to negotiation and I know what I want to take away and I know I want to go Oh, okay, so what is the worst thing I can think of that it’s never going to be that. Both of those things. When you overlay what you’re strong at and what you’re weak at internally, that’s a great way to solve a lot. Because, you know, we know, we know it’s concurrent, we know what’s controllable. How crazy is that? I know they say it in baseball a lot. I’m sure they say it in other sports to control the controllables Oh, they say it in sales also.
Christy Maxfield 40:26
Right, and the thing you worry about the most is the thing you have absolutely no control over. And if you really come to terms with the fact that I can’t influence that even my worry, will not influence the outcome. What can I control? The good news is, it’s usually a very small step. There are not a lot of things to choose from. So you get a limit your choices, and then you make one and you focus on the thing you can control. This goes back to a lot of our mantras, which are doing the basics, doing them consistently, and focusing on the things that matter most.
Jess Dewell 41:01
Not sexy, far from it. However, the most impactful, it’s like brushing your teeth every day, not sexy thing to do, but everybody around you really likes it.
Quentin Ortega 41:11
I’ll now think of that, every time I brush my teeth, thank you good
Christy Maxfield 41:14
Gift to humanity,
Quentin Ortega 41:16
I’m going to throw back to one of our other episodes, right where we talked about decisioning. Right. And really, this planning that we’re talking about now is one of the ways to get ready to make better decisions, right? So that when the thing happens, when the event happens, when the deal closes, whatever it is, you have a path made out in front of you. One of the things we talked about there, and that I think carries over here is knowing yourself about and also planning for a team around you, that thinks with head heart and gut just to use justice thing, right? So I think that having knowing which of those that you think forward with Jess was talking about data earlier, right, making decisions with data, and I was like, great, but you want to also have other people in the room for this planning process, that are thinking with their heart, they’re thinking with their gut, right, because if you’re missing one of those pieces, then you’re not, you know, planning for and or making the best decision possible. So I want to surface that again. Because I think that for downside planning, if you have if one of the decisions that you are thinking about making is layoffs, heaven forbid, or something like that, I want somebody in that room to be a hard thinker who’s like, slowing the room down, right, because I want that balanced feel in that room. And I think that everyone is valuable, right? Because it might make total sense On the data front. But if you lay off all your workers, and then you need them again next month, and then they’re all mad at you now, you’re not going to be in another way, you need people thinking from all the angles. And I think that I love and I’ve used many times, this just brought it up the head heart gut thing, and I think that it applies here very strongly.
Christy Maxfield 42:53
And muscle memory is something that happens because you did a thing over over and over and over and over again. Right. So we’re saying this kind of planning, if it becomes just part of your normal way of doing business, it gets easier, it’s less even obvious to you because you just do it without really thinking about it just like you drive to the grocery store, sometimes you don’t know how you got home, because you weren’t really paying attention to the root, but your muscle memory kicked in and you’re returning left and then right and then pulling into your driveway. If we can get that kind of behavior for the things that you’re doing on a routine basis, then you can also free up more time and energy to deal with the things that are going to be familiar. And you can get more familiar with feeling unfamiliar and being okay with ambiguity and staying in that space where it’s squishy. Squishy is the best term I have for a lot of things that have happened in business. It’s not fully baked yet we don’t really know,
Jess Dewell 43:50
Part of the upside of the downside planning is sure we’re talking about all of the things that could happen. What do we want to do? And queue you started talking about this, and I’m going to expand on this is we know we want certain people in the room. But here’s the other thing, we’ve decided this is the way our work is done here. And if this is the way our work is done here, and something goes crazy sideways, and we are in action mode. The good news is part of our muscle memory is this the way we work here, this is what we’ve decided is important to start with in any scenario, that’s high pressure, any scenario that is really unexpected. Any scenario that gave us an accidental end of runway that we didn’t have yesterday, all of those things we can ensure our culture stays strong, our impact and the way we want to show up in the world stays strong. And that allows us to show up for whatever crisis it is that ever whatever level in a way that is truly what it was desired and impact what the company wanted to do for impact anyway.
Quentin Ortega 44:53
That is all about communication. Right? So I want to say to like how do you keep the team updated? How do because here’s the thing also is if your company or venture or group or whatever you are is facing a potential scary thing, right scary situation whether that’s positive, scary or negative, scary, right? Positive, scary being huge contract we’re gonna struggle to deliver on right like, negative, scary, huge contract going away, that’s gonna cause us trouble venture right? Keeping your team up to speed along the way. And when I say your team, I can, I’m gonna extend that to me. And even like Christy was saying earlier, your bankers, your other your extended team, maybe as well, keeping the middle in the loop along the way is going to just really empower you. Because if you don’t keep them in the loop, they’re doing this in their head anyway. Right? They’re making up a narrative in their head, we all do. And so they’re deciding every day Oh, what’s the worst that could happen with this potential thing that’s coming down the pipe, right. And I think that making sure that you’re sharing, you’re communicating, you’re expressing, here’s how we always handle things. This is our culture, this is what we do. And continuing to stay consistent, is really valuable during that time too, as you navigate those waters. And
Christy Maxfield 46:07
I think like an old -ashioned SWOT, I would also offer an old fashioned like pestle, looking at all the types of external things that impact your business. I. Even before this weekend’s developments, I had clients who are uncertain about what the election results will mean for their business and the feelings their employees have about the uncertainty around that. And the perceived vulnerability of lines of business or how other people are reacting in the supply chain to the perceived vulnerabilities. And nobody knows what’s going to happen. Absolutely no one. But I can run a few ideas of even if it was status quo, we’re in some way, shape or form. Is that good? For me, we are assuming that a change, is that inherently bad, it will be uncomfortable, because change is inherently uncomfortable. But it’s not inherently bad. So what are my opportunities? What are these external forces that I don’t have a lot of control over? If any, like that I have the people power, the brain power, the data power, the heart and the gut power to say, what might this mean for us? And how might we move forward? So there’s a lot to be uncertain about. Any time I think Tom Hanks is video went around the internet for a while of this too shall pass. It applies equally to the good things as much as the bad thing. So if this too shall pass, whatever this is, what comes next? And how and where can I control what comes next? Bet future is right. No disrespect to the futurists out there. But you’re basically looking at there are alternate realities that could manifest themselves alternate paths based on different choices based on different outcomes to those choices.
Jess Dewell 48:04
If I can, if one of those pounds seems more desirable to me, and there’s something I can control, then that seems like a really good thing to me. So I was looking at my present retreat. Okay, so I’m thinking about muscle memory. And I’m like, I do this thing every week. Does this actually help with downside planning? And it turns out, okay, so I’m gonna go back to my example, I’m listening to Christina. I’m like, oh, so I’m going back to the example I shared. And I’m like, I’ve actually been working on really big initiatives around this part of my business, for over a year, five plus quarters, this has been not only the top priority, but the most impactful priority to the future in longevity of Red Direction. I’d say go back and take a look at at whatever you’re doing. In my case, it’s a present retreat, the clues are there, the clues are there, and you can actually go, oh, maybe I’m not putting enough time? Or how come? This is the time that I’m spending in here. And that’s actually because even and then. So that’s in that quarterly piece. But then even in the weekly piece, I’m looking at the what are the state of things, give me the neutral data, so I can go cool. It’s here. So how do I want to interpret that does that help us move the needle toward or away from our goals, and then being able to adjust decisions or communications or priorities based off of that, and making sure that those changes don’t take our eyes off of where we want to be in five years. And that’s an interest. So it’s an interesting, cool way to bring it back. And where that executive time in my world It’s a present retreat becomes really powerful because success does leave clues. And it also the landmines have already been planted if we choose to find some of them. And we can actually we can actually help ourselves by taking a look at what are we doing and how are we documenting this and what do we see and what is being reported in, in the teams and what are the repeated things that we’re not listening to as closely as we might so are there too Rennes yet, right? All of those things can come from just stopping and taking executive time, a present retreat for yourself. So that’s like my big takeaway, I actually would say, then part of a president retreat could be, what are your go-to question? If I’m doing my worst-case planning scenario, or understanding what the potential of an outcome could be for something? What are the questions I need to ask every single time to ensure I’m evaluating every single scenario, the same way.
Christy Maxfield 50:28
If success leaves clues, and I would argue with those, looking back at the things that have lingered on your to-do list, the things she perpetually avoided the appointment, you repeatedly put off, the conversations you can repeatedly put off, there, there is something there, right. And it, it may be that you evaluate it’s no longer relevant, it’s no longer important, I was right to not give it time and energy, it might also signal where you’re where you are trepidatious, about looking and what you are nervous about actually thinking through. And that’s a great opportunity. If you’re like, I think I need to talk to somebody, but I don’t know who and I don’t know about what it’s probably about that thing that makes you feel a certain way. And that’s a great time to call in somebody you know, and trust and feel like you could be more vulnerable with and say, Listen, I really need your help. And it’s okay, I’ve had people say I’m embarrassed. I’m like, That’s not because I’m embarrassed for you. I’m glad you’re here. But if you’re embarrassed that you made this choice, or you didn’t call me sooner or weird, why is it taken so long to address that? seal that feel? Don’t let it stop you. Like, feel the fear and do it anyway? What did you say dread and do read then do threads and do write all the versions of feel the feel. But don’t let it stop you from doing this thing that no is going to help you feel better, do better, be better and moving forward.
Jess Dewell 52:05
Bernadette, this is the answer to your question that you left us in the conversation before the show. Keep moving forward without over-analyzing.
Christy Maxfield 52:14
And just remember, if the only place the conversation takes place is in your head, you don’t have enough information. Because he said, your ability to be well positioned, whether it’s a negotiation or planning process is to have more information, and you have a finite amount of information in your skull. And so I’m perpetual, too much in my head person. Recognize that and make a different choice of how am I going to stop? Whether it’s a timer, calling a friend, interrupting yourself, the interruption of behaviors is probably the biggest thing.
Jess Dewell 52:54
So what’s your biggest takeaway today?
Quentin Ortega 52:57
I’ll pull out the phrases that I want to hopefully stick in people’s heads, right success leaves clues wrote down down right away. That’s fantastic. Just finding someone who Christie said this one, finding someone who’s not an expert, nor novice at what you’re doing to help you through these problems. Someone that’s in the middle, I think is a super valuable lesson there. And I think that just knowing who you are, again, I will say that, that and always not just doing things because it’s the way you’ve always done them. Right at the end of the day like this is about planning and thinking through new ways that things could happen and make sure you’re solving the right problem. So many, I got a long list today of notes that I took.
Jess Dewell 53:36
I like that, how about you, Christie?
Christy Maxfield 53:38
We are often the thing that is creating the greatest vulnerability in our business and recognizing that and whether it’s because of the role we’ve play, and the things we won’t let other people do, or our unwillingness to look at scenarios, that’s a big thing is there’s a lot of identity stuff wrapped up in being a business owner and all of us want to help businesses grow, right, we lead with our Grace work. And so much of that is about how much the owner is willing to grow. So I would dare to say that we are all looking if you asked us who our ideal client was. It’s somebody who’s already experienced a good amount of success and failure, who have seen both sides of the coin, who is very driven to do the best by their business, by their family, by their community, and who’s willing to say I need help. And I’m not even sure what that help is sometimes, but I know that I will be better if I work with someone as opposed to try and do this on my own. And that to me once I don’t care what the business is, I don’t care what the financials look like if we can start with that type of orientation. Then we can dive in. We can understand how the business works. We can understand what’s working and not working and we can make some choices that actually drive for us in a way that’s sustainable and profitable. So if you aspire to be like a great business owner, I would say, be coachable. And seek out that counsel. Yeah.
Jess Dewell 55:14
Fantastic. My takeaway today is that this is really a bold conversation to be having all of the things that we are talking about, take courage, they take a willingness to recognize we don’t know everything, that we might be doing some things unwell, we might not be doing other things at all, and to embrace the fact that we don’t know what we don’t know. And maybe we don’t need to do but maybe we do. And that’s why this conversation is bold. And so that’s what I’m gonna leave as my biggest takeaway is, whatever part of the conversation resonated with you today. It’s bold, and whatever piece you want to take away and go, Hmm, the next time I’m writing down our goals, or I’m checking in with whatever I need to check in to respond to something or evaluate an opportunity, bring part of this conversation with you, and be bold because it’ll be something you have never done before. And this is the conversation that we’re having today. How do we do something that we’ve never done and do a better so that we can work for muscle memory because I really do think the muscle memory is what’s going to carry us through, oh, even if everything’s going crazy, I’m going to get up. And I’m going to brush my teeth, because it’s something I can control. I’m going to put clothes on, because it’s something I can control. Maybe I’ll remember to eat breakfast, or somebody will tell me to because even though that’s in my control, I might forget. Right? Set yourself up to be able to do the work, and then go get the work done. Okay, that’s another It’s Your Business. Glad you were here. Glad you’re listening. See you next time.
Jess Dewell 56:46
Every single time I have a conversation, I take away something that I want to share with 25 people. I know when you’re listening to this podcast, you’re also listening for that, and we’ll have something that you want to share in the comments. I would like for you to engage with us. What is that thing that you want to tell 25 People from this program? Here’s why it’s important. It’s important because yeah, there are going to be how-tos. Yes, there are going to be steps. Yes, you’re going to be like, Oh, I wish I wrote that down. I wish I wasn’t doing this. And I could actually take action on that right now. But guess what, you’re not so engaged right now because that one thing you want to share with others will be the thing that you can figure out how to incorporate in your business in your workflow in your style, tomorrow.
ANNOUNCER 57:36
Jess hosts the Bold Business Podcast to provide insights for building a resilient, profitable business. By deeply understanding your growth strategy, ensuring market relevance and your company’s future. It is bold to deeply understand your growth strategy with your host, Jess Dewell. Get more information about how to drive solutions and reset your growth mindset at Reddirection.com. Thank you for joining us and special thanks to our post-production team at The Scott Treatment