The Power of Pausing and Self Advocacy in Business Growth

Starting the conversation:

How many times do you hit a wall before you ask for help? While a strength in most cases, there are a few universal situations where the downside of not asking for help has big impacts. Luck is not a myth, and Saul Cohen, Accountant & Acquisitions Advisor at The Expert Eye, shares about the difference between scaling and stalling business growth.

Knowing how you have designed your business directly impacts why and how you may exit. Understanding what has been built is necessary for likewise understanding the reality of selling and what preparation may help find a buyer for your legacy. Business ownership is fraught with challenges and surprises, and none of your experiences have to be regrets.

In this program, you will hear how experience is found in all luck that comes your way; how knowing yourself makes spotting when you are comparing yourself and your business to others easier; and a strategy on staying focused by saying “no” more. Jess Dewell talks with Saul Cohen, Accountant & Acquisitions Advisor at The Expert Eye, about why it is BOLD to accept and embrace the company you built and look at it through a lens of abundance.

Host: Jess Dewell

Guest: Saul Cohen

What You Will Hear:

03:55 Just how difficult it is to recruit and retain people.

• The day you get a team, and it’s you and someone else, right then you’re a business owner.
• The quicker we learn core elements, the quicker we have some sense we’re on the right track instead of floundering around.
• Effort is required, otherwise, the shortcomings and failures are more painful.

08:55 Luck is irrelevant because everyone was exposed to the same opportunities.

• Some people or some businesses are able to capitalize on opportunities when they come up.
• On a statistical basis, every business is presented with the same amount of good shocks, economic shocks, and the same amount of bad shocks.

10:10 You’re on your own path; what works for someone doesn’t necessarily work for you.

• Advocate for your own path, there isn’t regret or envy. Just the result of your (and your team’s) work.
• It’s a perk to be on your journey and have the life that you’re living by choice.

15:45 You stop comparing yourself to others, and you start comparing yourself to you.

• This is how you lead a fulfilled life.
• Advocating for yourself, knowing your self-worth are the reasons you are here, now.
• One of the biggest problems among Millennials and Gen Z is that people have low self-esteem.

19:50 None of us are perfect; we’ve all got things that inhibit us in different ways.

• Saul Cohen says, “We’ve all got things that inhibit us in different ways.”
• Be conscious about what limits we see and strategize ways to work around them.
• As soon as an idea is put into reality, there’s a risk that it could fail.

25:15 The power of having a strategy.

• You could do anything, but you can’t do everything. Having a strategy tells you what to say no to.
• We don’t say no enough … if that no is not painful, it’s not focused enough.
• Know that this is the path that you want to take.

28:20 When it comes to selling a business, it’s a different frame and it’s a different mindset.

• Selling business is hard, and it’s a different frame than building and growing the business.
• There might be similarities between tennis and badminton, but the sports are different, and they’re played differently.
• The thinking changes when exiting a business is a viable and strategic option to consider.

39:00 It is BOLD to embrace your experiences to become who you need to be to know if you are building your business for an exit, or to build for a lifestyle.

Resources

• Saul Cohen on LinkedIn
• Jess Dewell on LinkedIn
• Most business acquisitions in the SME world, are completed using the completion accounts mechanism.
• You need an INSIGHT Team…. to be one of the 20% of small business that do sell successfully.

Transcript

Saul Cohen 00:00
You could do anything, but you can’t do everything. And that’s the power of having a strategy. Because a strategy tells you what to say no to.

Jess Dewell 00:07
Like we don’t say no enough. You’re not saying no enough. That no is not painful. You’re not focused enough.

Jess Dewell 00:15
I’m so glad you’re here. Thanks for stopping by. At the Bold Business Podcast, we are normalizing important conversations. Yes, there are tips. Yes, there are ways to solve problems. More importantly are going to be what do you need for yourself to be able to solve those problems and make the most of the education, the training and the programs that you are already using? This is a supplement to that. It can sit on top of it, fuel your soul, fuel your mind. And most importantly, regardless of where you’re at on your journey, maybe you’re starting out, maybe you’re ready to scale, maybe you’re going through reinvention. The conversations we are having will help you at each of those stages. So hang around, see what’s going on and I look forward to seeing you engaging with our videos.

Announcer 01:06
You are listening to the Bold Business Podcast where you will hear firsthand experiences about what it really takes to ensure market relevance and your company’s future.

Jess Dewell 01:19
Saul Cohen brings a wealth of experience guiding business owners through complex transactions. He’s an experienced accountant and acquisitions advisor. This passion that he has about helping entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs achieve financial growth through strategic acquisitions is something that he has seen work over and over again. The clients that he’s worked with are across multiple industries and size. He’s dedicated particularly to assisting business owners that feel stuck not only around tax planning and exit strategies, but, but also around do I acquire? Should I be acquired to ensure their own long-term financial goals? So having an outside set of eyes, that helps you think like an investor, that helps maximize business value and personal wealth. Saul Cohen is somebody to be listening to. And that’s actually not the whole reason he’s actually on this podcast. The whole reason he’s on this podcast includes all of that. And he’s willing to look at himself and see what can he be doing? How can he be growing and be completely open with us about that? And I will tell you what, one of the things that you will hear in this is that it’s so important to invest in yourself. This could be the most important investment for you and the success of your business because you must put yourself in the position to take advantage of the opportunities. And without your own learning and development, that’s pretty hard to do. Another thing that came out of our conversation is that having a strategic plan, understanding what strategy is for you is, you know, how to say the letters? No. Confidently and ease more easily? Maybe not easily. More easily. And the third thing, this big takeaway that underlines our entire conversation, is we must ask for help. When we don’t, not only do we accidentally limit ourselves, we don’t recognize what we don’t know, and we fall into this category of missed opportunity. So he’s going to talk about all kinds of things in this, including why it’s bold to choose to act or choose not to act to continue to move you toward your biggest goals. I’m excited for you to hear our conversation. What’s the biggest mistake you’ve ever made since you’ve been on this path? How do you like that?

Saul Cohen 03:56
Whenever you start out on the entrepreneurial journey, every one of us is a little bit naive. I was absolutely naive and overplayed my abilities and my knowledge and my wisdom. I was quite young when I started, and, yeah, I think that caused a whole host of issues for me. Yeah, at some point, I just pulled my head out of the sand and realized that actually everything in my business is a reflection of me. And if I don’t like something, I need to stop complaining about it and do something about it. And if I want my business to be better, I should be a better leader. And if I want better team to come in, I need to show up and be a different type of owner. The biggest thing that I didn’t ever know about was just how to recruit people. That is the biggest thing that we do as business owners is like, recruit a team. Right. Because that’s when you go from, here’s me, I’m a really good consultant or I’m a really good freelancer, or I’m building, like, something. And when the day you get a team and it’s you and someone else, right then you’re a business owner and it is exciting. But it comes with a whole new area of business that you just have no idea about, or at least I had no idea about. And I think that was such a shock for me. It was a shock to the system. And it took me way too long to realize that I didn’t know what I was doing in that area. And it was painful as a result. But again, I think that the reason why it took me so long to realize it and the reason why I didn’t ask for help and all of those things, because I was just naive and I had my head in the sand and I was still a little bit wet behind the ears.

Jess Dewell 05:37
That is an expression.

Saul Cohen 05:38
Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s what it always comes down to. Your biggest mistake is always down to you don’t know what you don’t know. And I think that the difference between those who know and those who don’t is that the intelligent ones, the ones who know are, I don’t know if you want to call it lucky enough or self-aware enough to at some point realize that. I don’t know because I haven’t learned it or I am where I am because I haven’t invested in myself to be better. And yeah, that I think it’s. That piece is huge.

Jess Dewell 06:16
That’s a really big one. And you said two things that I’m thinking, ooh, that tie right back into this investment of being better. I don’t know if it’s luck or self-awareness, you said. And that’s very interesting to me. I. Looking back, hindsight being 20/20, maybe even with some rose colored glasses, is it one or the other, or is it both for you?

Saul Cohen 06:36
I’ve always said this. I don’t really believe in yet luck. I think that luck is opportunity. Right, but opportunity presents itself to everyone. It’s just that are you putting yourself in the position to take it or not? Look, I am. I’m inherently religious. A big part of me does believe that really it’s God. And God puts us in scenarios that’s there for us to, for our own self-development. But I believe alongside that that it’s down to us. The only thing we’re really in control of in life is how much, yeah, do we take those opportunities that we’ve been presented with, like how do we deal with the hand that we’ve been dealt? And that’s why I don’t really believe in luck. Because I think that everyone is dealt a hand that is right for them to succeed and everyone’s vision of success is different. So I think actually it’s that bit of do you become self-aware? Right. Is that yes or no? And lots of people will listen and learn pieces of information, but how many people will actually act on it? And I know for myself, right, I’ve learned loads of good ideas that I’ve never acted on. I know people who’ve made millions off of those ideas. It’s just because they acted on that information and I didn’t. We all do that all the time. You can only learn so much and you can only act on so much of what you learn.

Jess Dewell 07:56
Because I’m listening to you. And I’m like, I’ve been really lucky in my life a lot. Sometimes I think I’m a cat with nine lives actually. Actually it’s. I’m not that quite extreme, but it does feel like that some sometimes. Wow. Had I been 10 minutes later, that could have been a big mess. Wow. That would have been life-changing in a way I didn’t want. And I do believe also in a higher power. I do believe in that there is something else, whether. And it doesn’t matter to me if it’s God or myself or whatever. What matters is I’m listening bigger than myself. And I’m hoping to be open enough to be bigger than myself because there’s so much that we can’t see and we can’t feel that is right there for the taking. You know what I mean? To just help us in those small decisions. Maybe I don’t believe in luck. You’re making me rethink this concept because I actually have always said luck is all the effort we put in to be able to see. See what’s in front of us and take action. And that’s what you said. And you said you don’t believe in luck. And I’m like, how cool is that? Both are true. With the same definition. Ish.

Saul Cohen 08:58
The pivot for me actually was, I think it’s. Jim Collins says this in good to great. I think it’s him. I think, I think he, he’s. They did a study about what role luck plays in a business and they basically found that luck was irrelevant because everyone was exposed to the same opportunities, the same environments. It’s just that some people or some businesses are able to capitalize on those opportunities when they come up. But really every business is presented with the same amount of good shocks, economic shocks and same amount of bad economic shocks on a statistical basis. And it’s just the ones that are really great are the ones that are put themselves in a position to capitalize.

Jess Dewell 09:38
When those ideas came and somebody else took that action. We take action. We don’t take action. Somebody else did. I heard zero resentment, zero animosity and zero regret. Did you have any of those feelings at the beginning and were able to let it go? Or is it like cool? So glad you did that from the get-go.

Saul Cohen 09:59
When I was younger, like in school, I didn’t notice then. I do now. I am dyslexic and so I always did well in essay-based subjects. I always did really well in class, but terribly in the exam. And now I know why. And But I remember that there was someone throughout the whole year. He literally copied everything that I did throughout that year. I was his tutor. He relied on me and whatever. And then come the exam and he beats me. Remember feeling that, the resentment then. But I think somewhere along the line between that point where I would be quite jealous and now, I think I just realized that you’re on your own path. And what works for someone doesn’t necessarily, isn’t necessarily right for you. It’s not just about making a million pounds or becoming a millionaire or whatever. It’s about the person you become on that journey and the life that you live at. Conclusion for me that it changed it. So now there’s not really a. When you look at it like that, it’s not really about regret or envy. I definitely look up to people and you take my hat off to them. And there was certain people that I respect tremendously because of their achievement. And yeah, I think that’s right. But am I envious of them? Well, no, I like my life.

Jess Dewell 11:15
You’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast. I’m your host, Jess Dewell. This is your program for strategizing long-term success while diving deep into what the right work is for your business.

Announcer 11:28
Right now, you’re listening to the Bold Business Podcast hosted by Jess Dewell, a nationally recognized strategic growth consultant. She works with business owners and executives to integrate just two elements that guide business through the ups and downs of growth. Number one, know what work is necessary. Number two, do all the work. Schedule a complimentary consultation to find out more at reddirection.com.

Jess Dewell 12:02
I’m excited you are listening to my conversation with Saul Cohen, accountant and acquisitions advisor at the Expert Eye. When did you find out you were dyslexic? Was it many years later?

Saul Cohen 12:14
I actually only found out that I was dyslexic when I got to PwC. And when I was there, it was because I said to them, I was like, listen, look, everyone’s always told me that I’m dyslexic. My teachers have flagged it for me for years. I never really got tested, but I think I probably am. Can I, can we get a test done? And I got a test done and it was like, you’re dyslexic. Classic. You probably got called lazy as a kid when you couldn’t spell. And I was like, oh, yeah, that’s. That was me. That was exactly what happened. It’s just funny how it shows up like I’m actually, I’m quite arty. Yeah, my handwriting is Terrible. My dad could never understand that one.

Jess Dewell 12:49
Really.

Saul Cohen 12:49
My handwriting is illegible. I can draw with a pen absolutely fine. Definitely not Picasso. Okay, people, definitely.

Jess Dewell 12:57
For an accountant, I do stick people drawings really well. My stick people can do almost anything in my drawings, but that’s to the extent. Otherwise, it’s just doodles about here or there with illegible words on it. But it sounds like you’ve got a little more talent than that. Do you draw on a regular basis?

Saul Cohen 13:13
No, not anymore. I used to quite a lot. Yeah. My dad thought I was going to become like an architect or a structural engineer at one point. But yeah, when I was there, I got tested and they were like, oh, yeah, you know. And then she said something quite interesting to me, the person who tested me. It’s very common among high-performing professionals in finance that they are dyslexic because they are naturally drawn to careers with numbers because that’s where they excel and they’re comfortable excelling, but they struggle with written words and stuff. And so they just naturally get pushed into careers in finance, which I found quite interesting.

Jess Dewell 13:53
That’s incredibly interesting. Do you think you chose your purpose before you arrived here in this time and place, or is it something else for you about what your purpose and what your contribution is in this life at this time?

Saul Cohen 14:05
It’s really interesting. I am very purpose-driven. There’s a quote in the Hebrew Bible that basically means, and who knows, maybe it’s because of this you reached this position. Right. And I don’t know why, but that’s always stuck with me. It’s always been like a really powerful quote, like whatever position I’m in in life. Maybe there’s a reason why I do feel that I am massively driven by purpose and my sense of worth. When you become a business owner and you’re striving for success, you’re always looking to grow and develop. And a big part of growing and developing is understanding yourself more and understanding what really makes you tick. Some of that stuff. When I started to realize what I’m really driven by, what I really enjoy, and then I leaned into those energies more. I do really feel like, oh, yeah, great. I’m doing what I want to be doing and I’m making a difference. And that’s great. I think that matters.

Jess Dewell 15:01
I think it really matters too. I appreciate that quote. I’m going to try and find it for our show notes Saul, so we can get it word for word. There’s a lot of self-advocacy that comes from this conversation that we’ve had so far places that we’re naturally comfortable. Can we claim it? Things that we don’t really understand or know. And we’re going to find out more whether we know if we’re going to like it or not and don’t even know yet. Maybe even this concept of okay, I chose not to act on that. I chose to act on this instead. Now what? And so this concept of self-advocacy and becoming the person who, for lack of a better phrase, you’re supposed to become, how does that sounds like that would resonate deeply with you?

Saul Cohen 15:45
It’s always been about you’re meant to connect to your real sense of worth and we’re all put in the world for a reason and you want to connect with that reason. And the only way that you can do that is by improving yourself and working on yourself. The only way in which you can work on yourself is to know yourself first. That’s how you lead a fulfilled life, right? You stop comparing yourself to others and you start comparing yourself to you. And it sounds really cliche. And it’s a real shame that it sounds cliche because I think one of the biggest problems in the generation that we’re in is that people have low self-esteem.

Jess Dewell 16:19
I’ll speak about me in this one. I actually in the last two weeks have had a weird downfall emotionally. And I’m in this valley at the moment, okay? So if I can keep my head down and do the things I’m good at, do the things my past self set up, I can change my perspective. But I am in a place where I’m stuck and this perspective is all external. I can tell you at least 60% is story. And that 60% that at least is story, maybe more comes from my conditioning. The things I’ve chosen to believe and accept are that others gave me and that’s crappy in the grand scheme of things. And to be able to go. So at least in your when we were talking about self-awareness before, I’m like, oh, okay, so here we go. I do know myself. I got to the place where I’m like, oh, I’m in this valley. So now what? And what I have found is for me it’s action. If I’m reading something, am I reading to escape? Yes, sometimes. Am I reading to learn? Yes, sometimes when I’m having conversations, am I just trying to connect because I need any fuel? I’m an external person energetically to fuel so I can take that next step or am I doing something to learn? And then the next most important Piece is to your point, am I going to do something with that right now? Is it to take my next step or is it to just do more? And I fully believe that, especially in this valley place, that the good news is mine is not quite comparing to others. It’s a different variation of that, but I’m going to stick with that theme for this, which is, oh, okay, so something got in my way. Okay, that old thing’s coming up. Even if I thought it was done, whatever. So what haven’t I learned yet? What can I be more self-aware of? What is the thing and can I do it when I’m in the valley and feeling really icky and whatever that is? So that next step might be a little lighter or faster or back on complete purpose instead of timidly on purpose.

Saul Cohen 18:24
I think the thing that you said to me that was, that really stuck out. I don’t even know if you realized it, but you said that you realized that you’re in this valley, right? And it’s at 60% is the story that people have told you. And I think that’s the point, right? The point is that you’ve started to learn yourself, right? And you’ve accepted responsibility and said, yeah, okay, fine, it’s crappy that I had the story told to me, whatever. But Joe, that’s life. Everyone has stories that the environment that we’re in, we all have things that are good and things that aren’t good. And that is who we become. But who we will be tomorrow is entirely down to us. And I think the fact that you’ve taken responsibility for that as a first step, and I think it was a definite step for me as well, it was just accepting that, Joe, you could say all of these things about, oh, it’s a shame I was like this and it’s a shame I didn’t have access to that and whatever. But okay, who I’m going to be tomorrow, what I will achieve in 10 years time or whatever, that’s on me and who I choose to become tomorrow.

Jess Dewell 19:28
I have another day tomorrow, I get up on the same side of the bed, and it can look different tomorrow. I choose to see something that I haven’t seen today. And it can happen anytime. It could be one day, but it could be a period in life, it could be whatever that is. Do you recognize that? Do you have that same awareness, or do you have a different awareness? Is there something else that might? Can I feel that in myself for that learning?

Saul Cohen 19:50
I’ve got a few things inhibiting things that hold me back. One of the. One of the things, actually, this is a positive, right? So it’s almost like it’s completely otherwise, right? People always told me that was clever. People always told me that I come up with great ideas. And I love that. Like, I really leaned into it and it’s part of my personality because I love going out and talking to people. And one of the best things about being an accountant is I get to talk to people about ideas and strategies and I love that. I love being creative. But what I realized about myself is that was actually inhibiting me taking action on really good ideas. Because when it was an idea, it was whole, complete and perfect. And as soon as I take it into reality, I knew that there’s a risk that this could fail. There’s a risk there’s going to be holes in that idea, and I didn’t want that. I’ve come up with this perfect idea and I’m really good at coming up with ideas. So now if I’m going to make this real, it’s going to be. I’m going to have to accept it might have been a crappy idea. And I don’t want to accept that. I’ve always noticed another thing for me, again, being a creative person has just been like, focus is hard. I always joke, I’ll sit there and I’ll be sitting, reviewing a due diligence report or like a quite detailed piece of thing, and then just flick through my head and be like, and it might be something in the report, it might be something even not related to the report, tangential. And I’m like, oh, that’d be a really cool idea. And then, yeah, everything takes longer because you get distracted by these ideas. So actually that’s what this is now. It’s just my okay on a Post-it note now. And I think that half of no one, none of us are perfect. We’ve all got things that inhibit us in different ways. It’s just about being conscious about it and then trying to strategize ways to work around it, isn’t it?

Jess Dewell 21:38
I’ve been waiting for the moment to ask you about the post it notes and you brought it up. So here goes. The first thing I noticed when we got on was, oh, I have to know what’s on those post it notes. So what are you putting on these post it notes? For those of you listening, Saul is sitting in front of me at his desk and behind, over one of his shoulders is a wall and he’s got multicolored sticky notes and there’s more than one or two or three. There is a lot of these sticky notes in multiple colors. So now you’ve got the setup, you’ve got the scene. I want to know, Saul, what goes on them and how are you using them?

Saul Cohen 22:12
They’re just ideas. Any idea that comes to me, it’s almost like a good idea. Not now list is any idea that comes to me that I think, oh, yeah, that’d be a really cool idea that it goes on there. So on that wall, I’ve got new product ideas, things to put in my book. I’m writing a book at the moment, so I’ve got, like some points to put in the book on there. If it comes into my mind, it goes on there. I love to say that I was planned enough to say that the colors mean something. They don’t. I’ve just got different colors on my desk. And whichever one I reach first, it goes up on the wall. But, yeah, it’s the best way that I’ve found to stay focused on a piece of work. I work with a business coach, and one of the things that he suggested this year was this idea of focus time. And what I do is I literally, I plug in, I put some background noise, trees or whatever it is, completely clear my desk, and I focus on one thing and one thing only. And the only thing that I leave on my desk is these post it notes with a Sharpie. So if an idea comes to my head, I can put it on the Sharpie and put it up on the wall and then it’s out my head. And yeah, I actually. I do look at it once a month.

Jess Dewell 23:17
Me too, actually. I look at mine once a week. So now I’m really excited. Let me show you my scenario because it seems like we’re both tactile in this way. I have a little box called now near. And I have sticky notes, but I have napkins. I have torn quarters of paper. I actually in. Oh, no, I just got rid of that one. I was able to take action on it. I actually had a page out of a book that I ripped off and I threw in here. And then everything in a week goes in my now in near box. So once a week, I go through that in my present retreat time, which is my work on the business time. And I go through and I’m like, is it really now and near or is it later? And if it’s later, it goes into a future box, which I look at quarterly. Right. But am I now and near? There’s another bin Saul, that I use might be a good idea, but I’m not going to think about it. It just goes in so I can get out of it, get it out. And then I have that focus time and I go. Part of my focus time is to go through these and if it aligns with our goals in the next two years, it might go on the future box. If today is not that day, in the next 90 to 120 days, it might stay here, but it might come out and actually go on to a task list. I gotta communicate this to the team. I have to take these actions right now. This actually really aligns even though it wasn’t even in our radar. So how do we rearrange all of those things and make sure the priorities are the priorities and if they have to change, everybody understands the change? So those are the kinds of things that I’m using these sticky notes for. But they’re very similar in the sense that I got to get it out of my head so I can actually pay attention to other things. That’s our. Both, I think, our outcomes. But I forgot the third bin is a lot of these ideas actually come out each week in my nailing year box. And they go in the bin. They don’t even make it because they’re really good ideas. But I’m like, that one I’ll give back to the universe so somebody else can grab it. It’s not for me. It’s not for Red Direction. Isn’t that funny? So I think that’s cool.

Saul Cohen 25:12
It is cool. And that is funny because my. My. One of the other things that my business coach said, and I think that really resonates with that, is that he said to me, he’s like, you can do anything, but you can’t do everything. And that’s the power of having a strategy. Because a strategy tells you what to say no to.

Jess Dewell 25:29
That’s why I do the work. I’m like, we don’t say no enough. You’re not saying no enough. That no is not painful. You’re not focused enough. Isn’t that fair?

Saul Cohen 25:38
I think that’s hard on the up, right when you’re, like, just starting out, you’re almost overwhelmed. I’m always overwhelmed. But you meet someone and then suddenly there’s an opportunity and there’s whatever and it’s, oh, should I say yes to that? And like that. That. That could be great. And yeah, just having a strategy that you’re going to follow and be like, look, this is the path that I want to take. Yeah.

Jess Dewell 26:00
You work in acquisitions, right? We’ve been talking a lot about really great stuff. But I really want to work this in because it naturally follows the. The sticky notes, which is all of the things that you’ve shared that you do, all of the beliefs that you have brought to the table today, which resonate a lot with me. It comes down to we’re learning from mistakes, but we’re also trying to avoid mistakes. And then there are our own mistakes, but then there are just the mistakes that kind of come with learning something new, right? If you’re an athlete and you’re going to learn something new, you’re going to have mistakes. If you’re a business person and you have a business, you’re going to have mistakes. If you’re in engineering and you’re building something, you’re going to have mistakes, right? Or woodworking or whatever that is as you’re learning. So I’m curious, from the business perspective, are there mistakes that a lot of people make that they don’t need to if they just knew a little more?

Saul Cohen 26:48
Saul, if you’re an athlete and you’re going to make it to the top, you’re going to have a coach. And that’s why I’ve got a business coach, right? Because I realized I just didn’t know what I don’t know. And you know what? It’s the same with acquisitions, that people don’t know what they don’t know. And when people come to sell a business, people don’t know what they don’t know. And the thing is that it bloody matters, because in generally in life, right, if you don’t know, I’m trying to think of a small example, but if you don’t know how to fix a window, you know well enough that, okay, fine, I don’t have this skill set, therefore I should ask someone else, and they will come in. But if you hear a knocking in your car, you might. You might have enough knowledge to know that the knocking in your car isn’t a good sign that you should take it into mechanic, you might not know that. And so you might just keep driving and whatever and thinking it’s going to be fine. And actually you’re one step away from a breakdown in your car, right? And it really is the same in business, is that there are signs that you need to ask for help. And the problem is most people don’t know to ask for help. And for some reason, in business, I think people think they will just work it out themselves. And I’m not really sure I think it’s because it feels like it should be common sense. We deal with people all the time. Why shouldn’t I be able to hire people and recruit them? I’m a good judge of character. I’m always working with people. I manage my own finances at home. Okay, why should I need an accountant to do that? Or, you know, I’ve. I’ve been selling. I’ve been selling items in my business all my life. Why. Why should I need someone to help me sell my business? And it feels like it should be common sense. But the thing is, is that these things are all quite nuanced and there is a whole skill set behind it and the knowledge to ask for help is massively value valuable in of itself.

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Jess Dewell 29:02
I’m excited you are listening to my conversation with Saul Cohen, accountant and acquisitions advisor at the Expert Eye. I think that we are so driven. We understand what’s going on. We’ve always been able to do it ourselves. We’re just going to keep going and we don’t even know we’re knocking our heads against the wall. So I’m going to actually go back to my bins and your, my little trays and your sticky notes. That’s a place of pause. We paused to either make the sticky note or address the sticky note and our respective situations. We paused to go, can I say no to this? Does it make sense to say no to this? And if not, what else do I need to know if right now is the right thing? So I’m add pause to that.

Saul Cohen 29:47
I think you’re absolutely right because people just don’t take the time to stop and pause, as you say, and reflect on actually where do I want to go? What decisions do I really want to make?

Jess Dewell 29:58
People come to you and they’re like, I want the most for my business or I want this or I want that or somebody has an unrealistic expectation of the actual value or the worth or the potential of whatever because they just don’t know enough. Are there as a person to ask for help, as a person to go, okay, whether I paused or not, I’m running. I better snag Saul because he’s probably got something that can help me right now. How do you actually help people get to that first place of oh, I don’t know, maybe I actually need to Ask for help versus just gather information.

Saul Cohen 30:29
I always advise people to ask for help as early on as possible. And if you haven’t asked for help already, make sure you do. There’s so many people available today. Information is more available than it ever has been before, cheaply as well. There’s not really a reason not to know anymore. And I think just putting yourself in the environment to start learning as quickly as possible. One of the biggest things that I see and you’ve probably picked up is that I’m very into being deliberate with I’m on this journey and therefore these are the decisions that we’ll make and this is my strategy. And so one of the decisions I always say to business owners is like what sort of business are you building? Are you building a business for exit or are you building a business? Are you maximizing your business for its exit potential or are you maximizing your business to suit your lifestyle? Because those are two, both legitimate but two really different directions that you’re going to take your business in. And if you’re maximizing for lifestyle, your exit is going to be much smaller because your business is going to have less valuable assets in it. But you’ll probably be making out a lot along the way. You’ll have a really great lifestyle, that’s going to be fine. You’re going to take money out and over there. Tax planning and saving in a tax-efficient structure is going to be more important and much more of your focus than investment into the business. Whereas if you’re building a business to sell, you will at some point make the decision to pay yourself less than you could to invest it in the business. And while tax planning and saving for your life is also important, it’s the your main focus is going to be investing in the business and where should I next invest in the business and how do I manage cash flow problems that might arise. Whereas a lifestyle business and really good lifestyle business is going to be is going to be steady, right? You’re not going to allow it to grow too much because that’s going to be painful and just not suit your lifestyle, right? And so that you make are really different. And speaking to an advisor who gets that right up front and helps you maximize your business for that potential makes a huge difference.

Jess Dewell 32:36
I think that’s important. I also think it’s important to recognize for our conversation is that you can also change. You can think you’re going to exit and go to lifestyle, you can think you are life or you can just acknowledge I’m lifestyling My business. And then there are some really important questions. So in that crossover or in that change, it’s not easy. And this is. I actually think this is where people get really stuck and they’re like, oh, whatever. I can figure it out. Everything we’ve learned at this point is based off of that original decision that we made. And so anything we do out of that, it would be like changing sports. Going from an engineer to a teacher, or maybe the military to a civilian position. I’m not exactly sure we have the experience, we have the connections, we have all of these things, but it is so different.

Saul Cohen 33:24
People don’t realize that they need to apply the skills or the knowledge. If they’ve got the knowledge to begin with. You might have someone who’s really good at marketing. They’ve been fantastic for 20 years at marketing their business, understanding their ideal client Persona, and just talking to their pain points and giving them exactly what they want and constructing an offer that works exactly for their customer. When it comes to selling their business, they don’t think like that anymore. But why haven’t you thought about your client persona? And why aren’t you thinking about what they want and what they care about and what they’re worried about and then helping them come up with an offer to make that work? Because if you did, you would be more likely to get what you’re looking for. But it’s because it’s hard and it’s a different frame and it is a different headset that they’re not used to getting into. And the game is, as you say, there might be similarities between tennis and badminton, but the sports are different and they’re played differently.

Jess Dewell 34:18
Yes. Oh, I like your analogy very much. And one of the things that I’m really big on is we have a kaleidoscope. We have all these pieces that are in there, and it’s making some picture. Whether we like it or not doesn’t matter, but it’s in there, and we can turn this around and we can see the pieces move inside. And we’re making different pictures all the time. Sometimes it’s really important to go to the other end where the pictures are being made. Right. All the pieces of glass that are in there, and take some out and put some new ones in. And I think that’s what we’re talking about here. And we could actually be practicing that in our business. That makes the big changes less scary, less risky, more reasonable to go after. Because here’s what I will tell you. Some of the things I’ve seen One of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen of people on whatever path they’ve chosen to your point, all are valid. And when somebody wants to change, what they end up doing is they’re looking to. They’re looking to people who are just like them. They’ve chosen the same type of business. And thinking those people are going to help them change the course of their business or change the course of their outcome. So I’m going to also just put out a little challenge there of knowledge is free. Discernment is so important. Knowledge is cheap. The information is out there. People are sharing. But you really got to know, is this going to help me with the question I’m asking right now?

Saul Cohen 35:38
It is so important, because the truth is that the other side to the coin of what I was saying about knowledge being so readily available is it’s really hard to know what to trust and what’s applicable to me today. And, yeah, that is where your own judgment and understanding comes in.

Jess Dewell 35:53
And it’s okay to be judgy. I’m all about judgy when it comes to does this help me make my decision right now? And saying no is a judgment, and I’m all about that, too. I’ll just put judgy got a bad name somewhere along the line. And I think discernment is nice, but it also feels a little. It also feels people are like, I don’t relate to that. You can. We can all relate to judgy in some way. A common phrase in my house right now is the right thing at the wrong time. This is less than optimal or completely wrong time to be doing this. And I think what we’re talking about is that same thing, thing, wrong time. And that’s where judgment comes in. That’s where discernment comes in. How important is knowing exactly where you are right now to who you need to become to get to where you’re going personally?

Saul Cohen 36:43
And it will relate a little bit to acquisitions as well. People often say to me, oh, Saul, you know, you’ve done nearly 200 acquisitions for other people. Must be itching to do on yourself. And I am. In short, I am. I also know what can go wrong. I also know the strategy that I’m on right now. And I also know that the game is inherently different once the business changes size. And I think that I, right now, am on a journey and I’m growing this business to a certain size before I want to start thinking about acquisitions and all of that other stuff, because I know that’s the journey that I need to go on for my own development. The only value in growing a business to whatever it is, let’s say 15, 20 employees, as opposed to buying a business that’s already at 15, 20 employees. The only value in doing that is the person that you have to become to get there. And it’s definitely quicker to go and buy it. But the truth is that the down can be also quicker if to deal with that. And at that level, the problems are different, the challenges are different. And for me, actually, one of the biggest things that I’d be looking at is culture and focus and being driven and all of those things. And I wouldn’t be getting that development at that level. And so right now I’m holding off and I’m saying that’s just not where I need to be.

Jess Dewell 38:06
I think that’s fantastic. Now that makes me curious. So what are the skills that you are personally working on to be the best you right now that set you up for that next step whenever it materializes and arrives?

Saul Cohen 38:20
Leadership focus. Yeah, leadership focus and leaning into my strengths more. But actually, one of the things that I took on in the last nine months, year or so has been actually, let’s just get out there and talk to people. That’s what I’m good at. Let’s just get in front of a room of people and present and talk and talk about my experiences and tell people about. Let’s start educating the business world about those things that they should look out for, for, because I care that they know about it. It matters to me. Getting out and doing that and leaning into myself has also been a big one. So I think it’s really those three that are the areas that I’m really focusing on.

Jess Dewell 39:00
I want to know what makes it bold, what makes it bold to choose what to act on and what to let go to get you where you’re going.

Saul Cohen 39:10
What makes it bold for me to choose what to act on? I think that it would be in many ways easier for me to just agree and be like, yeah, that’s fine, I’ll just. I’ll just do what everyone else is doing and let’s go build a business. I’ve had people come into me and be like, oh, yeah, look, why don’t we just buy that? We’ll set up a private equity fund, we can raise the money and you just run it. And I think that would be a challenge. But I think what makes it bold is that I’ve accepted in of myself from a point of view of abundance, not necessarily from a point of view of oh, I’m not ready to do that. From a point of view of I appreciate that there will be learnings I need to get to be able to supplement my knowledge base and my experience before I did that job. I’m not doing it because I’m scared of doing it. I’m not doing it because I think that there are areas that I need to improve on before I step into that kind of a role as a leader.

Jess Dewell 40:11
Every single time I have a conversation, I take away something that I want to share with 25 people. I know when you’re listening to this podcast, you’re also listening for that and will have something that you want to share in the comments. I would like for you to engage with us. What is that thing that you want to tell 25 people from this program? Here’s why it’s important. It’s
It’s important because yeah, there are going to be how tos. Yes. There are going to be steps. Yes. You’re going to be like, oh, I wish I wrote that down. I wish I wasn’t doing this and I could actually take action on that right now. But guess what? You’re not so engaged right now because that one thing you want to share with others will be the thing that you can figure out how to incorporate in your business, in your workflow, in your style tomorrow.

Announcer 41:01
Jess hosts the Bold Business Podcast to provide insights for building a resilient, profitable business by deeply understanding your growth strategy, ensuring market relevance and your company’s future. It is bold to deeply understand your growth strategy with your host, Jess Dewell. Get more information about how to drive solutions and reset your growth mindset at redirection. Com. Thank you for joining us and special thanks to our post-production team at The Scott Treatment.