Link Leadership and Strategy For Better Results

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Link Leadership and Strategy For Better Results


As a business owner, it’s difficult to do the right work AND guide your company toward its next big initiative.

With Red Direction Business Base Camp, learn how to implement and handle processes to meet your business’s specific needs and better understand your market.

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Starting the conversation:

Long-term goals provide a way for your teams to rally around how they can participate in making your company’s vision a reality. With clarity around the expectations, a leadership team that learns to work together collectively is able to respond with greater capacity to the problems and issues that crop up along the way.

In this episode, you will hear about the importance of clearly communicating the way a business does everything, how to know if you are growing or escaping, and the three ways that leadership teams are different from other teams. Jess Dewell talks with Jack McGuinness, Managing Partner at Relationship Impact, LLC, about seeking how to take collective action.

It is hard to say no to good ideas, yet when doing so you get more of the right work done. It is the right work that creates achievement that turns into lasting success. Success happens when a company recognizes the importance of the WHY behind good leadership teams. Jack McGuinness, Managing Partner at Relationship Impact, LLC, shares about how to achieve more by getting the right people who will navigate uncharted waters together.

Host: Jess Dewell

Guests: Jack McGuinness

What You Will Hear:

Accomplishment may take longer than expected, and you must be dedicated to get to reach your goal.

Overlooked: how important leadership teams actually are.

The three ways leadership teams are different than other teams.

Does the desire for changing things up come from the opportunity to grow or the opportunity to escape?

“Shoulds get in our way – from external as well as internal sources.

Inside companies, training may not be practical due to the pace and scale of the plan … yet this is an area where true potential is missed when the goal and expectations are communicated.

Pause to speed up; create a minimum critical structure.

One of the things that leadership teams miss that the military does well: adapt and overcome.

First, understand another’s perspective.

Additionally, for the Fast Track Your Business Today Uncut conversation:

Regularly taking time to reflect and evaluate to make adjustments doesn’t have to take a lot of time.

Do the little things well!

Reflection helps you go faster because you learn what you were thinking and are thinking so you know how to adapt to be the person (and the team) you need to be to reach your goals.

It is hard to say ‘no’ to good ideas.

A three-point framework to get ideas into motion.

Know your workstyle and learn about your blindspots to help yourself stay out of your own way.

The infection point of time and progress.

It is BOLD to keep seeking ways to do things differently at every stage of business.

Get started and make a difference in your business with a Growth Framework Reset.

Jack McGuinness - Link Leadership and Strategy For Better Results




Welcome. This is the Bold Business Podcast. Your business has many directions it can travel, the one true direction of your company creates the journey for you to move toward a new, exciting level. We call this the Red Direction. In today's program, we delve into one idea. The idea will support you as you work on ever-present situations, including how to stay competitive in a changing market, how to break through the business plateau, and how to anticipate the changing expectations of your stakeholders. Just the will is your guide, just brings you a 20-year track record of business excellence, where strategy and operations overlap. Your Path comes from consistently working from the special place. Your unique TrueNorth. Now, here's Jess.

Jess Dewell 00:51
Hello, welcome back to the Bold Business Podcast, where we are talking about the types of things that you need maybe today. And if not today, definitely in your future. Because when we're talking about leadership, when we're talking about problem-solving, when we are recognizing we want to do something different, but we're not sure where to begin conversations, like what we're having on the Bold Business Podcast are what you can count on. This information is something that yes, you can continuously learn. More important than that, you can do some self analyzation, you can do some analyzation of your organization and take tips from our guests like Jack, who I'm going to introduce you to in a moment with you into your next creative work session. Your next present retreat your next brainstorming meeting or session. Okay, so without further ado, I got to say this is Jack, and Jack and I are like two people in the same choir. We love leadership. I don't know, it's like neck and neck. I think it depends on the part of the topic, one of us is going to eek ahead. And he is so passionate about building great leadership teams. Jack McGinnis is the co-founder of relationship impact, also known as our AI. It's a consulting firm that's working with CEOs who want to unleash the full potential of not only themselves, but how they can guide those leadership teams to his experience as a platoon leader, a management consultant, a CEO of a contract packaging company, as well as the co-founder now of our AI. All that experience is what is influencing his efforts to continue to help organizations build great leadership teams in times that are great and easy, in times that are a little new and different. And the ones that we really don't expect we'll have the skills to lean in to Jack, I'm really glad to have you here with me.

Jack McGuinness 02:53
Thank you so much, Jess, it's a pleasure to be here. And just in a few conversations we've had we definitely have some, some we're like kindred spirits that don't know each other. But we definitely have some, some similar interests and passions for sure. So it's been fun talking to you.

Jess Dewell 03:08
Thank you, and they're gonna continue. I have no doubt. Feeling. Yeah. And that's one of the best parts about when we're looking at and showing up to what comes in what comes to us. Now, I have to tell everybody, that and I want to start here for two reasons. One, it's a great accomplishment, and I'm into celebrating accomplishments. And two, there's going to be somebody that this can help. You just published your book.

Jack McGuinness 03:36
Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was a year-and-a-half journey. But yeah, I just my book was published on Amazon still available on Amazon. In the beginning of June, so yeah, pretty excited about it's gotten some good reviews and some good feedback and just been fun, you know, a fun experience something new for me. You said 18 months, right? Yeah, but 18 months,

Jess Dewell 04:00
about 18 months. Okay, so some of the people in our, in our audience will be like, I can't believe that you have an initiative that took you that long and other people that are listening are going to say, Wow, that's a great short-term initiative. And so thinking in terms of the time whatever our, whatever our listeners relationship with time, are at where was that for you? Was this like, Oh, no problem. I'm used to do it, tackling things that are 18 months long or longer.

Jack McGuinness 04:34
Yeah, great question. I had never been asked that actually. But I thought it was gonna take me a lot quicker. I thought it was gonna be a quicker journey than that for sure. You know, I got, I got stuck at points. You know, just kind of trying to convey the message and use good example practical examples and that kind of stuff. And then and then the editing process really, you know, was worthwhile and to end took some, my wife got her hands on it at some point, after my publisher had already edited and she, she, she, she definitely, you know, put some her teeth into it and but made it better. So, you know, it took a little longer than I thought but, but it was, it was a worthwhile experience.

Jess Dewell 05:18
So you had Okay, so it took longer than you thought. However, the right people showed up regardless of their relationship to you, because they knew they could contribute and help you shine brighter.

Jack McGuinness 05:29
Yeah, and a lot of people helped me at, the at the final, final hours with, with some editing, including my one of my nephew's girlfriend's kind of. She just graduated from college. She said she wanted to put her hands on so so yeah, it was Caitlin was awesome, too. She gave me some good feedback.

Jess Dewell 05:47
Now, is that? Okay, so here's the skill that all of us wish we had. I will tell you, I think I have people who would do that. Just be like, Yep, I can help you right? Now. Let's go. However, I would say I'm not necessarily good at recognizing that particular accomplishment. So have you ever thought about it in relationship to wow, you have this skill and, and you've actually utilized it to make this vision come together and really cemented at the end into this accomplishment? Yeah, no,

Jack McGuinness 06:16
it's a new skill. I mean, I'm a decent writer, I've been I've had some good, you know, education in writing, I got, I got abused in college, I learned a lot there. And then my first boss was a great writer and helped me kind of simplify the complex. And I think that's what I've done here is, is come up with a practical resource. That is, the feedback I've been getting is it's, it's pretty, it's easy to read, it's practical, and not a lot of jargon and buzzwords and stuff. And you can, you know, apply it to real-world world situations. So that's what I was hoping for. So

Jess Dewell 06:55
I know one of the chapters that you believe, creates impact. And it's something that it's one of those passions where you eat out above the pack in and that's about the importance of leadership teams.

Jack McGuinness 07:09
Yeah, yeah, I, you know, when I wrote the book, I, you know, I obviously, I'm a voracious if you can see my, my bookshelves, now they're filled with all the books, you know, all the business books and stuff, I just been a junkie for years. But, but so I kind of knew what was out there and wasn't out there. And there's a couple books on leadership teams, but not many, there's a lot on teams, an incredible amount of teams. And so, you know, obviously, when you read a book, you have to, you know, come in with a different point of view. And the point of view is, is quite simple as that being on a leadership team is different than being on any other team, it requires a few really important things, it requires the team members that are able to live in two places at once live in, in the, in the world of managing their function or their business unit. But most importantly, you know, looking above that for the greater good of the organization, which is easy to say, and much harder to put into practice, frankly. And so that's one skill. The other skill is like having the ability to have foresight to think beyond tomorrow. And you can learn those skills. They're not, they're not, you know, some people have them neatly, but, but, you know, just recognizing that that's something you have to have as a leadership team member, I think is really important. And then thirdly is like I mentioned before about my, my first boss, out of the Army, was the ability to simplify the complex, I think, leaders today with all of the information that's thrown at us, and all the complexity that we have in running a business is today even a small business. It's It's the ability to simplify complex issues for yourself and for your team. And for those who work for you is really, really important. So leadership teams are different they can they can either accelerate organization, their organizations, or unfortunately, sometimes they get in the way, and actually hold their organizations back. So so that's what you know, the first chapter really are one of the I'm not even sure if it's the first chapter. Yeah, it's the first chapter talks about why leadership teams are so important, and our point of view and what makes them different.

Announcer 09:30
You are listening to the Bold Business Podcast. We will return to the show soon. But first, I want to take a moment and give you a peek into what additional services and solutions you could access to Fast Track Your Business. This program was created to develop your capacity on demand by sharing insights tips, as well as lessons learned by business leaders unedited and uncut and we don't just stop there. There are three additional benefits to help you reach your growth goals. You'll also have unlimited data access to one, hearing tips and insights to develop yourself as a leader to get better results more often, to experiencing viewpoints from many different business leaders, three, receiving frameworks to build core competencies, and to more effectively focus on business growth and leadership. Altogether, the Fast Track Your Business program will allow you to face uncertainty, anytime, anywhere, you can access what will become your most personal tool in your toolkit by going to Fast Track Your Business Now, back to Jess,

Jess Dewell 10:35
now you're talking about the three things that make leadership teams different from other teams. And so I'm thinking about your experience and the conversations that we've had. And we're going to start with different we all know, we like different we seek different we want different yet, how do we know when it's the right time to try something different? Yeah.

Jack McGuinness 11:03
Well, I could teach some courses on what maybe not to do.

Jess Dewell 11:08
Right? I think I could do that one, too. Exactly. No.

Jack McGuinness 11:11
Okay, I have a point of view on that. For sure. I think, you know, when, when different means that you're growing, and you're, and you're seeking the next challenge for the quote, right reason for, you know, to develop your own capabilities, or take yourself to another place or explore a new opportunity to challenge versus rather than escaping something. I think that, you know, I hadn't, you know, one of my life experiences I, I got, I got really burned out of a one of the places I was working and, and that I had helped create a, you know, form and took a less than mature approach to looking at my next venture and jumped into something and, and, you know, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't work out as well as I would have liked. Okay, yeah. And I think I think I was kind of running away from something versus embracing something new. If that makes sense. It makes

Jess Dewell 12:20
complete sense. That's actually one of the things in the companies and the size of the companies that we're working with that Red Direction. Usually, that's one of the big weaknesses within a leadership team, one or more people are inadvertently escaping. And they're doing it in ways that are sabotaging the greater good, even though they don't think anybody else sees it while they do their while they have that internal struggle. And I know you've seen that, too. And I've been through that I've been I got I've been getting in my own way. Well, now tell me if this is related. It's almost is it? Is it like? Or is it different than what you were just describing? Is it like when you get promoted? Because you're so good at your job, but now you have a whole new set of skills that you don't know how to use that you don't know you need to right? So when you go into management role, or middle or a senior management role, and everything changes to your point of being able to be in two places at once? Yeah. Or is it more like? It's an iterative, incremental thing where we don't we're not communicating well, or we're not is it really more internal than it is external?

Jack McGuinness 13:29
It's probably a little bit of both right? Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it like that. But, but yeah, I think, you know, again, I see a lot of people wanting to get promoted, for example, to build on your example. Because they think they should, or that's where they're Chase chasing the money or, which is not I'm not disparaging that at all. But but But it's, you know, rather than really wanting to lead people or manage, right, rather than be a technical expert. That is, particularly in a lot of the small to midsize companies we work with, we find that you know, that it's a natural thing, you promote people that aren't good at their jobs, technically. Then they get into a position of a manager or leadership position and really just don't have the capabilities and skills innately or haven't had any development of those capabilities, which, as companies scale creates chaos.

Jess Dewell 14:33
Yeah. And it's interesting, it's like the chaos seems to come out of nowhere. And in the particular case that you were just describing, it's actually self-imposed and building over a course of, you know, a course of, of some time span. Yeah. Are there things that you have thought about? Where, where if somebody wants to make change, do you start in that area also, or is that something that like, is a byproduct of another thing that you start with when you're initiating change and developing leaders and community creating cohesive team?

Jack McGuinness 15:12
You know, I think it's a natural, I think, I think, you know, it would be easy to say, for example, just Continuing the example, we just felt like, it would be easy to say, Well, you can't just promote people and have them move to the next level, you have to have, you know, they have to have some training, or they have to have had the experience already working. And you know, as well as I do the fast pace of organizations, young organizations growing, it's hard, it's hard for that to happen. I think, as a, as a, as a founder, or a senior executive, or a CEO or a senior executive in organization, it's important before you scale too much to recognize that that could present that, you know, scaling without having leaders that that have some capability to lead. Yeah, aren't just focused on, you know, being a good CEO, continuing to be a good salesperson, for example, in that, and don't really have the capability to build the capabilities of those under them. It's important to step back and recognize that that probably something it doesn't mean that you, you can't promote people because their technical capabilities, but it does mean you probably have to put some something in place to have them develop those the skills that they need,

Jess Dewell 16:35
right. And most of the time, it even though a lot of experience can be bypassed, there is nothing that replaces experience. It's right, yeah. And so and that means if the, if the skills are being learned, and by the way, I'll consider myself a lifelong learner, there is so much that I don't know about leadership, there is so much I don't know about business, even though this is the thing that I've been doing, basically, my entire career. And so, not knowing what you don't know, might be an intriguing place to just pause and say, so I'm in this role, well, what is, what is expected of me versus what do I think is expected of me? And what do What does? What do they want from me versus the company? What does the company wants from me versus what do I want for me here? And that is this inner reflection, right? This, this concept of and I'm, I'm really curious about this specifically around the escapism? Because I do know that that's kind of a common thing of, well, how do we know we're escaping versus growing? How do we know we're escaping versus growing? So do you have any tips or insights or experience on that?

Jack McGuinness 17:49
Measure that I do, actually, I think, you know, at, at pivot points, like getting promoted, you have to be honest with yourself about what you're good at and what you're not. And I think, I think in anything, I think, stepping back and reflecting on what both as a supervisor and as an employee that's getting promoted or put into a new role, it's important to step back and say, Okay, I'm being put in this new role, obviously, I don't know everything, obviously. And I'm not great at this job already. I have potential they wouldn't put me here. But what is it that I don't know? What is it that I, that I need to develop? And partner with, you know, my supervisor, to get there or mentors or someone to get there? I do think that, and I, I say that all the time. Yeah. Because all we do is work with leadership teams, right? And so you don't necessarily need a consultant for sure. But, but it's important to step back and say, what do we want this team to look like? And what, what, what is it that we're trying to do here? The other thing we talked about in that first chapter is the fact that most leadership teams are thrown together because of the direct reports of the CEO or the president, rather than with a discerning view on what is it that we're trying to tackle here as an organization. And what is what do we need this leadership team to be doing collectively to leverage their collective capabilities to take the organization where it needs to go? And I. I think most organizations are set up. They're called teams, or leadership teams are called teams, but they're, they're really staff functions where right folks are reporting out quickly to a CEO or president.

Jess Dewell 19:41
And this takes time. And I think that this is you know, and that's one of those things where I will go into busy not busy and things like that, and I don't I think we could bypass that and go deep quick in the sense of that time that it takes to To put a design into place to say, Okay, well, these are the people that are here. Wow, do we design for these people to achieve success? Because their success is our success? Yeah. And we're supposed to help them remove the obstacles. And now I'm thinking of right, that senior leadership team that might be working with some group for a particular thing. I'm also thinking about smaller companies where you might have a founder or the top three positions in a senior management role build, and it's more of a go get jump in the deep end. Yeah, yet, we still need to design both of those cases. It's obvious when you say it the way I just said it, that there are pitfalls yet we're in the moment we forget that there are pitfalls. And we write we have hot we're optimists, which, by the way, I love. I love the optimist part of humanity in general. Yeah. And so what do you think about that? Yeah,

Jack McGuinness 20:55
I just think, I just think back to the, you know, the conversation we just had a couple minutes ago, it's like, I think stopping just a tiny little bit to go fast is important. Stepping back, putting the minimum critical structure in place so that you're able to understand what it is that we're supposed to be doing to what are the problems that the leadership team is supposed to be solving together? For example, what is it? How are we going to communicate with each other? What's our cadence look like together? What's important in terms of, of how we're going to behave together, when we're together and not together? It's just the some of those structural things can help you go faster if you step back and reflect on them and just say, hey, yeah, this is how we're going to manage this stuff. And what we see is just as you describe, particularly in the smaller, smaller companies is just go get it done, just go and people are being pulled, rather than, you know, joining with me, by the way, the

Jess Dewell 22:03
majority of my experience is that that's how, that's how I got my role in my first company, as an owner. That's how, yeah, that's how we succeeded. That's how we grew. And, and I love people who have done that, and recognize that there is a, an upper limit that they need to break through. And so and that's one of the things too, that have some negative connotations in more established organizations or larger organizations, when you have somebody that doesn't have the design that doesn't have that minimum critical framework that you were speaking of, that they're seen as unreliable, or against the grain, or rogue, or all kinds of things. By the way, these are all things I have been called. Yeah. Right. And that's it. That's something that it's just because it's misunderstood. And so for, for anybody who says, Just go figure it out, that's listening, you've said just go figure it out or bring me an idea. Just remember, you're seeing this amazing potential that this person is coming back to you with or have gone to get. And if it's not what was expected, or it's not what was desired. It's not bad. It's actually really good. It's how do we use it to be

Jack McGuinness 23:24
disruptive? You just need to listen and hear a different way of thinking. Yeah, yeah. And I think setting expectations earlier, helped to Yes. It's hard, it's hard to step back, I noticed. I've had the same experience myself,

Jess Dewell 23:42
right. I mean, to write I mean, I was like, go get it done. And I went and got it done. And so I'm naturally that way. And it's I this pausing piece is something that it took me a while to learn. And once I learned it, I understand really the value. And so and you'll have this experience, too, right? Because whether and you have to tell me Oh, actually, I'm just going to ask this from being in the military to now, right, being a civilian versus being in the military. There's drastic differences here. Are there things that we could all learn having, for at least me personally, having not been in the military? Or for people who haven't or who have, but maybe haven't put together all of the options for them? How do those things like what with what we're talking about now? Setting the stage, having that framework, understanding what the expectations are? How are those different typically in each area? And is there something that leadership outside of the military really still is missing to this day?

Jack McGuinness 24:47
Uh, yeah, I think that I mean, it does. It does involve the stepping back part and prepare preparation part. The military is really good at that. I, you know, I only have one experience in the military. I was served. I went to a military college College and then I went to and I served for three years in the 10th round division, so small infantry unit small unit tactics that and so my experience is that we prepared really well we had the structure down, we we trained really well. But then the opportunity to go execute based on that preparation was, was really, really, really powerful. And, and it's not is command and control and hierarchical as you would think it is, it isn't in when you're outside of, of, of deployment, but when you're in it, it's you know, your, your job as a leader is to adapt and overcome. And the second thing that I think that, that some organizations do a great job of this, I would say a lot don't is, is stepping back and doing after-action reviews post mortems reflecting on how did we do. And what did we what are we learning? I the military does a great job of that. And, and they do, and I'm just going to go on for a second about why they do such a good job, they do such a good job is because it's not hierarchical, when you step back and reflect after a mission, a training mission or I'm sure in in real time in wartime. I wasn't in, in wartime, but, but I'm sure reflecting after that as well. There is not the sense of you can't speak. In fact, you can speak and you can respectfully disagree with those who, who are above you, and many layers above you, and are expected to. And if you've you and if it looks like you're not, that's when you get challenged. So I remember as a second lieutenant being able to say I'm not really sure that we should have deployed like that, it looks to me like there would have been a better way of doing it. And, you know, I may have been wrong, but at least I was able to say what I felt that is, that is a skill that a lot of organizations don't have the opportunity have the ability for people to be able to speak their mind and, and share their perspectives without getting shut down.

Jess Dewell 27:35
Yes, and I have heard this a lot, having no military experience. Yet speaking with people like you and listening to my family who has, who has been in the military. You know, it's interesting, because I do this thing called a Present Retreat. And the whole purpose of the Present Retreat is to slow down to speed up, it's to take stock is to regroup. And I do it every week. And it never occurred to me until we were talking right now that the concept of adapt and overcome is a huge basis of that. And so it's not an original thought this thing that I have created into by any sense of the meaning yet your talk talking about the powerfulness of people who can move resources and do things at such a mass scale that many of us, most of us as at least in my audience has no concept of what it means and that pausing works for them. And I hear well, we just don't have time. There's no time. What's the what's

Jack McGuinness 28:44
the military, it's you have to have time do you make, you make time there's a there's, you know, this guy I was, I was, I was only in for a short period of time I got right before the first Gulf War. But there's a guy named General McChrystal of the McChrystal group. He taught he has a book called The team of teams, it's really really, really good. It talks about communications and in and making larger, smaller, making larger organizations small seem smaller, and breaking down communication barriers. It's really well done.

Jess Dewell 29:25
Was that the, was that the one? I could be totally wrong about this. Was that the book where they were talking about? How do we become more flexible in the execution versus ahead of time?

Jack McGuinness 29:37
That was definitely one of the themes for sure.

Jess Dewell 29:40
Okay. I think I've heard of this book. My Library is packed away, right? We're between houses right now on and yeah, every time we go to the storage unit to find something for the kitchen, we have to go through all of my boxes of books for my business. Yeah. And can we get rid of those? No. No, I wish I had written the name of every book on the outside of the box. Because it is once a day, I am wishing I had my library here. Because like you, I love to read. And I actually use the books as a tool.

Jack McGuinness 30:12
I do too. And I don't necessarily read all cover to cover, but I have notes all over them.

Jess Dewell 30:17
I also don't read books cover to cover. And I also will start reading a book and be like, Nope, don't need that, right?

Jack McGuinness 30:27
No, I hear that and skip to the middle of the book, because it's something that interests me.

Jess Dewell 30:33
I don't remember where I got this from, there is a person who I stole this from, and I can't remember their name. They, I write in the every book, I pick up whether I choose to read it or not. I read the introduction, I read the conclusion. And I read the foreword, and I read them typically in that order. And so I can understand what the big idea is, then I'll look at the table of contents. And then I'll be like, Ooh, I really need to know, I want to see how they put all this together. Wow, this is going to be a tool for me here and here and here. And I'll just get those parts, and to your point mark them up. But the inside of every single one of my books says where I heard about it, when I read it, and what the big idea is, and all of the important takeaways that are going to go somewhere. Yeah. Because then I can quickly I can't catalog all that in my brain. And I'm tactile so I open up the books, and there's what I need. And yeah, so it's kind of like a card catalog. Yeah, I don't mind the old-school pneus of it. It really is useful in a lot of ways. Well, you know, so we're talking about, actually, we're talking about the way we work now. And that's that's something that I think is incredibly important the way we work, and how much, how much does it matter how I work in let's say, we ended up on a team together in an organization, right, something happened, the initiative was made, we were in the room when the initiative was set. And now we're working together Jack? What can we do? How well do I have to know me? And how well do you have to know you to be able to show up in the role? Think about the organization and make sure that I have a useful perspective and I'm adding value?

Jack McGuinness 32:21
Yeah, I mean, I think it's critical, I think you have to, you know, both of those things are true, you have to, you have to, you have to first really try to understand where the other person is coming from and understand what their perspectives are and what their experience has been. And how that may be useful for the current team that you're working on right now that you're working with right now. And most importantly, I think you have to step back and say, Is my experience and how I've shown up on other teams going to work for this one? And sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't, and particularly again, back to leadership teams. Just because you're hired as the Chief Operating Officer of this new company, doesn't mean the way that you worked before in this style, the behavior of what you brought to the previous organizations is is going to be sufficient or necessary for this team at this time. For example, if you have you know, a new team, that's gel, that's gelling, that is, that is up filled with a bunch of reflective analytical thinkers. And you come in as this hard-charging, let's just get it done. type of Chief Operating Officer, you're going to immediately run into a buzzsaw and, and so it's not it doesn't mean that that's not a valuable skill and capability. But you have to use that. And as do the analytical folks. Yes, adapt. Right. So it's That's right. It's a bit. But again, this is that step-back thing. You have to take little tiny bit of time just to have those conversations about Who are we and how do we show up here? And how are we going to get in each other's ways? And how are we going to try to avoid that?

Jess Dewell 34:25
All right, everybody. You're listening to the Bold Business Podcast, and I'm here with Jack McGinnis. All right, you know how amazing this is, this conversation is continuing. So for those of you who are part of the Fast Track Your Business program, head on over to your true north to get the full uncut program. And by the way, if you happen to be listening to this on our, on our regular podcast feed and you're part of TrueNorth don't forget it's going to show up in your customized feed as well. So just hop over, get that information. Stay tuned for our next program.

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